11. How to create a corporate revolution with Leanne Hughes and Prina Shah!

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hello and welcome to this episode of Ways to Change Your Workplace with myself, Prina Sha, where we uncover ways to make your workplace a much better place to be. Do you want to change things at work but don't feel that you have the power to? Do you have loads of ideas on ways to change your workplace? Are you at a loss of how to actually make these changes? Well fret not. My guest today is the wonderful Leanne Hughes. She's a corporate renegade. She has heaps of corporate experience, and now through her business, she's helping you to create a corporate revolution. Tune in to listen to some super practical ways in which you can create a corporate revolution. We connected a good few years ago over a mutual connection that we have here in Perth. And then I think we've just hit it off ever since.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Absolutely. I think I was really attracted to you because you're like, we can change this corporate culture, we can do things differently. And I'm like, yeah, I so buy into that mission. So, and you're just awesome. You just show up everywhere. Uh, I love the message that you share. I love the way that you put yourself out and what you talk about. So, of course, we resonate.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Thank you so much. And Leanne, um, I have lots to say about you, but first off, do you want to introduce yourself? Who are you? What do you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:27

And why do you do it as well, please? Oh, why do I do it? Yeah, sure. I'm an international consultant. I've always really been interested in learning and development. I remember when um I think I was 13 or 14, I read my first sort of self-development book, which was The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Teens. It was Steve Hobby's son wrote it. And I loved it. And ever since then, I've just been like really thirsty. But but what happened was at uni, I kind of got because I was studying HR, I kind of did that consulting work for a bit with Accenture. And then I sort of had a quarter life crisis and thought, hey, there's more to life than this. And ended up joining like a really crazy camper van company called Wicked Campers in a marketing role. Um, and like Steve Jobs always says, we always connect the dots looking back. It's never looking forward. That can be kind of frustrating at times. But where I am now is in a place where I'm actually linking the organizational development culture, change stuff with the marketing and the evangelism and word of mouth that I learned in this crazy role and bringing it in together to sort of ignite charismatic change. So um often I know you might hear it, Prina. Like the leaders I talk to, the way that I felt in companies is like, oh gosh, change is going to be hard. We're going to have all this resistance, we need to create all these plans. And like it has the heaviness around it. But I've sort of the changes that I've seen work and that I've led have been like effortless, have been fun. And I think like I want to sort of share that with the world.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

That's cool. And I love the fact, Lianne, that you come from a background of having lots of corporate experience, you know, the good, the bad, and the ugly, as we all have had. And you're bringing that life experience into what you're offering the world now in terms of how we can change. So today, Lianne, I want to talk to you about how we can create a corporate revolution.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

It's so powerful. And by the way, Prina, just like I was sharing some ideas, and Prina came back with that line, and I just love it. I mean, so thank you. But if that ever goes somewhere, I've got sort of, I'd love to sort of create a book around that premise. Um, you're the person to thank.

unknown 3:25

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

My pleasure, my pleasure. From middle acorns, big trees grow. So who knows where this will go. Um, so while we're talking about uh creating corporate revolutions, um, Lianne, tell me more about what that means and what it is from your perspective.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, I think it is um uh a revolution, I guess the foundations of it, it's it's against the system of the way that things are set up. Where we sort of struggle internally, and this is probably any type of leadership program I've ever delivered or a session where we're trying to inspire changes, you always get that feedback of look, I'm up against it. Like my manager doesn't buy into it. Um, the delegation of authority doesn't enable this. And so I think there's actually some systemic things that you need to consider when you're looking at a corporate revolution. I'm sort of more interested in given everything that is going against you, what are some wins that you can take? And I think it's back to that. We've got we've kind of made a joke in Australia at the moment around personal responsibility in relation to COVID has been given a really bad rap in relation to sort of the government pushing that ownership on. And we do hear in companies, we're like, oh, you know, we won't provide learning because learning has to be uh led from within. I think there's advantages and disadvantages to that. But I do think in change, especially, there are some things. And I've worked in government organizations, I've worked in a rebranding initiative. That was my first big change thing. And when it happened, we're like, that was the most joyous uh fun thing that ever happened. That was the easiest change we've ever had. When I was hired, the anticipation was it was going to be really hard to get through that. Um and so what I recognized is things that probably are effortless and easy to me probably aren't known. And I'm keen to share some ideas on what that might look like. But it's more about the revolution is also power to the person, right? So power to the individual going against it. And that's what I'm here to arm people up with that and give them inspiration and tools in order to do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

You speak my language. Oh my gosh. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Yeah, well, that's why I'm here. I love talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Exactly. So, Leanne, okay, in the workplace, we see subcultures. So I talk about culture change. You know, you we have that umbrella culture of whatever the organization is pitching, but then there's always these subcultures, and you see that team doing things a different way. And I want to be a member of that team, or you know, that leader doing things differently, or that individual even doing things differently. So there's little pockets of subcultures. Um, how can we create our own such subcultures from a change perspective? I know that's where you're coming from.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

You're absolutely right. And I think when we look at culture, I guess my definition of it is what the behavior that you're actually observing. And so I I would found that so often in my corporate role, which I left back in 2019, but I'd go to level seven, there was a different vibe. I'd even walk to another side of the office and I felt like lighter, another side, it was very quiet. And so, what was the difference between those? As you talk about, it's the the leadership, the this, the, but it's not people talk about leadership like it's some kind of arbitrary thing, but it's you could you absolutely see it in in terms of uh even leaving work at a certain hour, right? So if you see the leader there till 6 p.m. and they're saying, Oh, you can leave earlier, people don't leave. I remember running a leadership program in Hong Kong and everyone was like sick of working until 8 p.m. in this head office. That's pretty normal for Asia. Um, and then I you know just quizzed everyone like who wants to leave early. Everyone put their hand up. So sometimes in creating the subculture, it's actually being having the courage to go against what's been set. And this actually happened to me when I was working. I wonder if my friend, my work wife, she wasn't my work wife back then. I've never actually shared this story or shared it with her. But I remember, I remember because I'd come into work really early, like 7 a.m., but because I wanted to leave early. That's how I operate. So I was leaving around 4 p.m. And I remember her saying to me when we weren't really close, she's like, Oh, are you leaving already? And I was like, Yeah, I am. I shut down and I left. And I tried not to take that on board. Um, that, and what I instead tried to demonstrate is how can I add value like through the work that I do and obviously trying to separate that presentees and culture from being effective. But it's hard, Prina. And there were times where I felt compelled to stay a bit longer, but I was like, no, no, no, I've done the time. I'm pretty much useless after 4 p.m. My brain goes to go. So there is a sense of having that bravery and courage to step outside what's being accepted. And I think we convince ourselves to not do it because we think worst case scenario. But really, I mean, she wasn't my boss. But what was interesting after that was that I started the culture started to shift. And rather than it being like everyone leaving at this crazy hour, like we were all leaving around four o'clock. I mean, I've never really shared that, but yeah, so it's just one step in that. Um, but what you're doing is and this all a lot of this stuff is comes down to social influence. And Jonah Berger's work in this space is fantastic, but we are it, and you talk about it when we spoke on on my podcast, you were talking about those hidden signals. It's not really overt, it's covert.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

And so it's actually bringing that and going, okay, what is it? And how can I break that? Um, so that was one small example of how to create a subculture. Subcultures, I think, as well, just to talk, um, I think you need to be driven to go against something. So often we we're like, oh, we need to unite people, we're all about innovation. But could it be about instead of we're all about innovation, we're against the status quo. That is much more powerful than going for something. Um, and people unite around that mission. So, my flip chart group on on Facebook, we're united because we stand against boring workshops. We want them to stop. That's more compelling than oh, we want to create engaging experiences. So I think that's that's a nice way to think about it as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

That's cool. So that that that even if you're talking at an individual level, it goes down to me as an individual and what do I stand for? And how do I articulate that? And how do I stand up to the organization as well? Because it takes cuts. You know, your example of leaving at 4 p.m., everyone relates to that in some form or another. And that's an individual choice and it's an individual action.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

And it was tough, it was really hard because I I this I was new, like I was new to this company, but I'm like, I'm not putting up with people, like this is useless, it's a waste of my time, and why should I? Actually, I maybe this links in, and and maybe so when we talk about a subculture as well, and and talk about influence, I think where we get it wrong is that we think everyone in the business has equal say, right? And it's not the case. It's who are the people, and I had little influence, right? I was brand new, but also we know that new people have fresh perspectives and new ways of looking at things, and that needs to be um, you know, keep that. If it's like it's it otherwise you get sort of lost in and you're not bringing that uniqueness to your role. Um where was I going with that? I think it's what uh I did this assessment that Jordan Peterson runs, it's called understanding myself. And um it there are a few, you know, these little psychometric things. This is quite robust, but um, what I was really surprised at, Prina, was on a scale of politeness, I think I was at like the lowest percentile around. And I don't perceive myself that way, but I think that yeah, so it's what what I'm saying is we don't don't target everyone the same. It's like how do people going, how are they going to act out? For me, I don't really care about being perceived a certain way, so I'll I'll step out. And that's the type of person you kind of want to take on your mission.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Now, if I'm not that type of person and I've got all of these ideas and I am, you know, revolting against the corporation in my head, how do I apply it from from where?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

From yes, exactly. Yeah, so don't see it. So I well, first of all, I saw that politeness thing as a real weakness, and now on reflection and talking to you about it now, I think massive strength. So it's actually what is your strength? I know we hear that all the time. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that actually does stand true is if you're not extroverted, if you're not keen to go against that, what are some ways within that you can um start sharing your ideas or approaches? And and change itself, everyone thinks it has to happen at scale, but it happens in micro moments. And I think we sack a lot of effort when it comes to change on launching and the big announcement and getting that email right and the CEO announcement, perfect. But it's not that. It's that's attractive, it's sexy, but the power is in the reinforcement every day. That's where change fails, is when you set this beautiful expectation and then on the ground, nothing has changed. So there is absolutely any opportunity for any individual to reinforce it every day, every meeting, in any email, in any touch point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

That's cool. Um, I don't know if you've looked up or read about uh Kotter's uh eight-step model to change. I love it because it's more of a humanistic perspective, um, far more human than ProSai and you know the other change models, which have amazing templates. However, Quota talks about uh communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate. Like you can't over-communicate when there's change, even if there's nothing to report, report it. I mean, COVID, the pandemic has you know been the perfect example of that, of that change which is imposed upon us. Um, the other thing that Quota talks about is getting those quick wins early on from that change perspective. So yes, your project might be massive and for years or whatever. However, throughout the, you know, throughout your milestones, there's so many quick wins that you can have, do them, communicate them, and bring the people along the journey then.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah, and I think that goes to us as well. I think every day we need to start recognizing and celebrating because change is not a destination, change is ever ever going. So what are you celebrating? Like why and why wait till the end? And it needs to be constantly reinforced um as well. So I think Codders model is I I agree with the communication. I think there's other cool ways that you can do things as well. The only thing about Coders that I don't uh love is that it seems to be quite linear, like do this first, then do this, then do this. But I think change can be if you have a philosophy and framework around it, it you yeah, I mean, where I've seen change sort of fails where people have sort of, oh, we'll do this step and then we'll do this step and then we'll approve this. And it's like, no, no, meanwhile, the change has like happened, or it's the grapevine's taking control of it and it's it's gone viral. So I love like the whole influencer marketing piece around it. Um, but it's learning to love the process. And again, another reason why change fails is we make it harder. We bring in more paperwork, more policy, more procedure, more checks. Yeah. I'm not falling in love with that process. Like, what are you taking away from me? What are you making, how are you making my life simpler? If you can do that, I'm on board.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

That's cool. Um, one of the culture theories is walking the talk. Uh, there's three things in relation to culture. There's the symbols, there's the systems, and there's a behavior. So a symbol could be that only the CEO in our organization has an office, no one else has an office. So that's quite a big cultural symbol to state that, yeah, we're all on some kind of similar level, supposedly. Uh, systems, you know, every organization has mammoth mammoth systems as well. That often as an individual, we don't have any control over. And then the behavior aspect, oh my gosh, all of us own our own behavior. So that's where we do have control, don't we? Where we can make an impact. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah, it's really, I mean, I'm I some of the systems, you're right, they're just so complex and comprehensive. And where just the whole symbolism thing that I find interesting is um we can have a value like innovation, right? And this is where I actually I think it was like in 2017, I was thinking of doing a speech around innovation and core values. So I got someone to just do a research of like the ASX, like top 200 companies, and just find out what all their corporate values are. And it was about, yeah, 25 to 30 percent of all companies had innovation um in their core corporate values. Because it's one of those, I mean, it's just becoming a word now. And what does it actually mean? And I worked for two companies that had innovation in as a core, you know, everyone's like oh, we need to work more innovatively, but they only applied that to the operational side of the business. So in the services, but but then I'd I'd go to the onboarding or I'd see a slide pack or a speech. It was the last word that you would use to describe it is innovation.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

So it's not, you know, you can't compare compartmentalize these things as well. So symbolism and also tokenism is probably on the other side of that, um, is where we only apply it where we think we need it, but it's a way of working.

unknown 16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Absolutely so. And innovation is a value itself or just bad values, you know, behavior. Uh we've talked about this before, and our friend Yuri talks about it as well extensively. Uh, yeah, it's just a big no-no in terms of innovation as a value. So, okay, me as an employee, how am I going to innovate? What permission do I have? Do I have permission to fail? Because that's a massive part of innovation.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yes, yes. And it's always talked about, oh, we'll do this, we'll bring in an autonomous fleet that's so innovative. Yet your frontline supervisors, if anyone speaks up at a pre-start, they're saying they're not listening, they're not taking it on board. Whereas I think that is like the environment for innovation. And I think it, you know, if you've got to test it at the front line to know whether it, if it's coming through and cutting through.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Yeah, absolutely. And then you make a really good point about values being more linked to the operational outputs rather than the internal way in way, you know, out in our culture, let's say. That's such a uh dislocated way of organizing your organization, if I could put it as that. Like, do you not want to look internally as well as externally? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Oh, that's it. And I I think we often overlook our people as being the best ambassadors to grow our business. Yes. Like often you find that the best people that, you know, that the best client results engagement results have the best internal employee engagement results. Like they're very much aligned by that. And you know, innovation to me, it like yeah, yeah, we see the same structures and systems and archaic ways of working. Um so I think I love the way that you put it dislocated. I think that's perfect.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, cool. Um, Leanne. So we have in terms of this podcast, we've got lots of leaders who are listening to this, and no doubt that they want to make change or they want to create that subculture. What advice or tips would you have for them at that leadership level? Because they do have the more positional power. And then speaking to an individual as well, who might not have that much perceived power, what could they do?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

So leaders and individuals. Yeah, so the first thing I'd probably do would be um, Prina, you know, I love this. We'll be going on a listening tour. Yeah, my friend put it best. Um, he calls it leadership by loitering. So the first thing is to get out of your own head and to actually see what's going on and know that the answers are actually at the front line. The best innovations, the best things, the best uh, you know, the way that I just uh in those sort of meetings or sessions where you have people at a frontline all together, that's why I love the TV show Undercover Boss. Because I really it's like you don't need to do a digital survey to get a pulse check. Like just get out and be present. Now, in that, while you're on the listening tour, listening to people, you're also uh unconscious, subconsciously building your brand. But people, um I talk about being the earlier being sort of anti-presentem culture, but I think with any type of influence, you have to be around often, you have to be frequent, you have to be seen and visible. So part of listening is is actually part of influencing as well. So when it comes to actually rolling something out, you've built the relationships. People have seen you and people talk about that. And you might think, oh, I'm just showing up and I'm just listening. Do you know how what an impact that has? So the first thing would be stop listening to this podcast and go straight out to your front line and just observe and sit there, and people will start talking to you. That's the best intel um I think you can get. Um, another thing I think to pay attention is um the grapevine, like what's going on in the grapevine. So it a lot of these skills first up would be just building your own awareness of what is actually going on. Then I think um when it comes to creating the subculture, it would be we've got to think strategically about this, like where is the future of the business? Where is that going? And what behaviors do you need to be able to drive that? So it can't just be, oh, I want us to be um more resilient. That's the biggest catchphrase thrown around at the moment. Um, okay, well, what does that mean for us? How will that help propel us? And what will that look like for us and defining that? Um, and so be so listening, looking at where you want to go, and then going, what's the gap here? What behaviors do we need to instill that? Then map it out. What does that actually look like and mean? Is there anything here that we're doing that does not fit under that credit? Like that, then use it as criteria.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah. That's cool.

unknown 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

And as a leader, I can apply that, and as an individual, I can apply that as well. Uh, and when you were talking, I was writing lots of notes, Leanne. Um, listening to, I love that idea. And thinking about myself in corporate land when I was heading up people and culture teams, I used to have the best kitchen conversation. So just when I'm making my cup of tea, you know, because I had that positional power of HR, you know, and some people just think of you as the enemy or whatever. Um, and that's not the case. And even as a leader, you've got that positional power where people may not completely open up to you. So there's subtle and organic ways of doing that, listening to whether it be through a kitchen conversation, or I remember one CEO that I supported, she really wanted to learn what was happening on the ground. Um, and you know, this was a bit more formalized, but then she ended up uh with my suggestion, uh setting up CEO coffee catch-ups, just random coffee catch-ups with people that you know her PA would handpick every month from the organization and just go and have a coffee with the CEO and just shoot the freeze. I think that's really cool, you know. So yeah, making yourself approachable in that room.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Yeah, that's absolutely it. And I mean, I've got a husband that works in mining, and I don't think anyone would be listening to this, but you know, they've got a new leader in there, but no one's ever seen this guy. And that just as a result, they're like, what is going on? Like, no one's listening to us. And it all it would take would be for that person just to start showing up to rate to some pre-start meetings. That's it. Not even having to say anything, just being there. Um, I I really it's it's really underrated. It's really underrated. Particularly now with the virtual space, but probably the next question is well, how do you build that virtually? Um, why can't you just like sort of zoom on? You know, do what Hey Mish Hey Mich and Hey Nandy, but just jump on a few calls and listen and people will be like really alarmed. But guess what? A you're garnering attention, right? So people are going to talk about it. Hey, did you know so-and-so was in the meeting? Attention is such a powerful weapon right now as well. But also, hey, yeah, I'm being seen, I care, I'm curious.

unknown 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

That's cool. Absolutely so. Uh, and then the other thing you talked about was the grapevine, and that's such an important aspect of you know, the jungle drums within the organization or the gossip, uh, whatever it is, the gossip table. Um, one of the things I used to do in my team meetings at the end of the agenda, at the bottom, I always used to have what's the gospel? From a professional perspective, you know, we still had to maintain our professionism. But you know, managing a HR team, my team knew far more what was happening than I did because you know, sometimes stuff didn't come my way. But the people on the ground, oh my gosh, they really knew and they they said they shared.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah. And the what I love about that, Peter, is that you were you asked the question, right? So you just put it out on the table, you were open about it, you asked. And I love that it was like, it's such a beautiful question. What's the gosse? Um, and because we'd have it all the time. And I remember like there were the gossip is hilarious. Um, you'd see different people having coffees, and you think, oh, maybe they're gonna start a team together. Like, what are they collaborating on? Um gosh, it's so good. I used the grape bone once, this rebranding activity I was talking about. Um, and I wouldn't, you know, this is not a tactic you use often, you know, just use it maybe once in your career. I think I've used it and it's it's over now. But um, so this whole rebranding thing, we wanted everyone to um, we were changing names of this educational provider and they were really because it was in WA, so it's moving away from the TAFE brand, which all our lecturers loved, right? It was so vibrant in the community. We're moving away from that and privatizing the sector. Uh so people were kind of against that anyway. Um, so what I utilized, the the the grapevine in the Kimberley region is just like that is how you get you know information spread. So I actually talked to a few people about it and I said, look, don't tell anyone what the new name is, it's this, but you can't tell anyone, knowing full well that they'll tell tell everyone. Yeah. Um and it worked, it worked beautifully. That whole like anti-approach. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

I've got a secret about this, which I've never shared with anyone.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

But I really wanted to tell people.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Oh, I have applied exactly that myself long ago when I was working in the UK and I met my partner there at work. So, you know, office romance and everything. And initially we kept it very quiet, but then it was time to come out, and uh, we decided to tell the office secretary, who was, you know, just the gossiper of them all, and out was our news, so easy as that. So, yeah, that there's certain ways where you can use people who have more of a voice in sharing certain pieces of information with them. And Malcolm Gladwell really talks about that nicely in his book, Tipping Point. Uh, excellent about who those others who can carry your voice and your message, Leanne.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Yeah. Um, the one example of that. So I call them like the employee evangelists, and you know, like arm them up and then let's set them loose, like just let them free. And that's what I love about it. Because like I really, I really don't like the web change management at all. You cannot manage change, but you can create conditions where it's just viral and effortless. So I take a lot of the sort of word of mouth marketing in this, but we were running a reverse mentoring program, it was a new initiative. Um, and the biggest objection to that was getting um, so basically, where we get graduates into the company and they would mentor the executive team, right? So they would actually be the mentors for the exec. Because the execs want to know about technology and what was going on. It was really cool. But objection is they have no time, they're busy, they are running a multi-million dollar business, sorry, billion-dollar business. So we're like, okay, how can we get this approved? And your initial thing is, oh, we'll have to convince someone in the executive team. But then we thought, no, no, no, who controls the calendar? It's the executive assistants. So we got them on board first. We consulted with them, we find out how this best worked, they are on board, they freed up the calendar, and it was like the best project that came out. Um, it was such a win. So, yeah, it's it's targeting the right people for the objection for what you want to drive.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

There's an amazing Japanese concept called Nemawashi. Please excuse me if I've completely got it wrong. I'll put details about it in the show notes. And that's talking to exactly this, Leanne. It's about consulting before you consult. So it's priming people with your information and talking to the right people, though, not just you know, random chucking your messages out there.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yeah. Yeah. And I think like um, you don't do it for the sake of just, oh, I want to bring them on board. Like they were genuinely helpful and like sculpting this because they thought of things that we hadn't even considered with execs and like getting connecting, like, you know, things that aren't even on our radar when it comes to getting it calendar time. So you're right, you're consulting it, you're building the brand, you're making it better because you're getting that diverse opinion. Um so this is what I mean. Like a lot of change is is planned behind the scenes. It's like take it front of stage, like take it into the audience, take it, like take it out there while it's this drop of an idea. What diversity is actually bringing people in when you're not actually ready. And that's what probably a hard thing is with leaders is we have to release this when we're confident, when we're 100% right. What we know now though, what we're in the age of is we'll never know. Nothing is perfect. And it's just really put what it did for us was it pulled out of that unconscious incompetence. We didn't know what we didn't know, but by talking to people, we just socialize it and it creates its own momentum.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

That's cool. Leanne, you have inspired me and no doubt loads of people who are listening today. And um, one of the things I really hold on to is the fact that each one of us can create a legacy every single day. You don't have to wait until your death, until you know 80, 90, whatever, to have this legacy moment. Every single moment we can create a legacy, whether it be personally at home with our loved ones or within our workplace and finding ways to change your workplace. But Leanne, I have one final question for you. If I was to give you, Leanne Hughes, a magic wand, what is one way that you would change the way of the workplace?

SPEAKER_00 28:38

I'm gonna be a little bit controversial here. I would actually hand the magic wand back to you because I think that we can create this as back to what you're talking about, Prina. I love that. There's opportunities every single day for us to do this and does not require a magic wand or a fix or anything like that. And I think through the process of having conversations, you're already doing what it takes to change the workplace. It's an everyday behavior. So while it's so tempting to accept that, and I was really thinking hard about your question, like what there's so many cool things you could do. But I think the empowerment is in like just look, pretend you've got the magic wand right now. You've got it, we've all got it. Uh, start bringing it that magic into your calls, into your communications, this way that you interact, into the way that you do things in your company. You've got it already. Um, it's just time to unleash it.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

And there's a brilliant acronym which people can look up. JFDI.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

What is that? Just do it.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

F and do it. Yes. Just F and do it. Um, Leanne, no doubt people want to learn more about you or maybe even contact you. So I'm gonna put all of your details in our show notes. Um, thank you so much for your time today.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Thanks, Prino. It's been a pleasure. I love, always love talking to you and getting ideas.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Are you ready to take a stand against crappy workplace cultures, lousy leaders, and toxic teams? If that's you, if you're ready, then you need to join the Ways to Change Your Workplace Facebook group, which is linked in today's show notes. I'll see you there, and I'm looking forward to you tuning in to the next episode. Ciao for now.