182. You Are the Greatest Project You'll Ever Work On - Dr Marny Lishman and Prina Shah on Self-Awareness, Solitude & Emotional Agility

SPEAKER_02 0:03

This podcast is for people who know that the workplace can and should be better and are ready to do something about it. You will learn practical ways to change organizational cultures and human behavior without boss work, without box ticking, without performative leadership. I am the boss of Prena Shark Consulting, working with executives, leaders, and teams to create work cultures and environments that actually work for people. I am Prina Shark. I specialise in organizational culture change and human behavior change. I am all about making work better with people who give a damn. So if you think I can help, contact me via LinkedIn. I am here to help you to find decent ways to change the workplace. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Ways to Change Your Workplace podcast with me, your host Prina Shah, and I'm bringing you my friend to you today, Dr. Marnie Lishman, who's based in Perth. And Marnie's written a book about something very interesting. The book is titled Only You. And Marnie says that this is a book from her heart. This is something that I really want to talk to Marnie about. So first and foremost, Mani, welcome. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

I'm crazy. How are you? Thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

I'm very excited to speak with you today about only you. It's such an interesting topic as we were talking about before I pressed record. Amani, before we get into the conversation itself, at a high level, can you tell us what you do and why you do it?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Who do you serve? I serve the person behind the professional. So whoever that may be out there in the world, those people that are, I guess, high functioning, they're busy people, they got it, they're adults with a lot on their plate. And yeah, they're dysfunctioning every day, but they're like, oh, I'm getting stressed, or oh, I've got this anxiety that I can't shift, or oh, I'm burnt out. So that's probably yeah, the main client group that I work with, and it's individuals and it's groups as well. So workplaces, for example.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Beautiful. Your work is much needed for all of us, I tell you. Yes. Now, Marnie, your latest book number three. Congratulations, by the way. Can we just applause for Marnie? Book number three. I'm so excited for you. Book number three is called Only You. And we've been talking about this for a while, and I've been reading the promos that you've got about it as well. I think it's one of the biggest topics that we all need to work on, and that is ourselves, you me, myself, and I. You talk about the book from various lenses, and I I want to just start with the fact that we're born with nothing and we die with nothing, really. So it is only us, really, at the beginning and at the end. In that respect. Why did you write this book?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yes, well, you're right. Because I think we just go out into the world, don't we, and search for I guess ourselves in other people pretty much straight away. And some ways we have to, don't we, from an evolutionary point of view. Yeah. Survival. We have to be part of a pack. We have to be part of a village and all those sorts of things. But what I notice with a lot of people that I have worked with over the years is that those little gaps of time where we are by ourselves, whether it's a relationship breakup or we're made redundant because of something that's happening in the workplace and we're stuck at home for a period of time, or there's a pandemic where we're disconnecting everyone around me, or we're grieving the loss of a loved one, or we can't find the one. There's all these reasons why we end up alone. But a lot of people slip into loneliness very quickly and stay in it far too long. And I've seen it time and again. And I just thought to your point, we start out alone and end alone. We need to know what to do with that period of time so that it's a time of transformation in a positive way rather than a stagnating loneliness where we can end up really depressed and really almost shattering our self-worth because we feel like no one wants us, that kind of feeling. So I wanted to play with that limbo period of alone loneliness and make it a catalyst to personal growth. That is gorgeous.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

I've just rudely pulled up my phone with intention, with good intention, right? Yeah. So you have just reminded me about something. I was texting a friend who's got two kids, and she was telling me yesterday, which this is all through text messaging, that she really wants her kids to embrace the lonely periods of their life. So her son, her eldest son, is in between, he's gonna finish school, but before he goes to uni, like this free time that we all now crave for, which we don't have anymore. And she's talking about the difference between going on holiday and truly traveling, but enjoying these phases of your life, which are essentially lonely phases, if we describe them as that. And you've just said so much in terms of we search for ourselves and other people. We always, yeah, there's gonna be gaps of time in all of our lives, whether it be redundancies, whether it be divorce, other pandemics, other crises, stuff is gonna happen constantly. So is your book uh combating loneliness, or does it have a different angle or a different perspective or a different lens?

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Yes, yeah. It's like almost I've come from it in lots of different ways. I've come at it as a mental health professional, yes, to talk about that loneliness epidemic because many people are alone, but my argument is loneliness doesn't have to mean uh like alone time doesn't mean loneliness, it doesn't have to. So what to do with that period of time? It's not the same thing, and how solitude is so powerful. So I come tackle it at a mental health professional angle, but then I also didn't want to bounce into it and say, hey, being alone is just wonderful all the time. I didn't want to do that either. And I thought as I was writing uh the difference between being lonely and relishing in that time alone and solitude, I thought many people are in that period of recovery from a relationship or in the midst of the emotions that that came from the result of why they're alone. So I've actually shoved in a part two in between my part one and part three about heartbreak to healing. So when you're dealing with that thickness of emotions that are really hard, yeah, that make you just jump on online straight away to find a new partner, or like all those behaviors that we do, or constantly scrolling on the on your phone because you feel so lonely. So all those kind of vices we have when we've got our heart broken or we're depressed because someone's broken our heart or whatever it might be, yeah, I really wanted to tackle that as well. So that's community, a mental health professional point of view, but also my own stories of I've been by myself and not in a relationship for quite a long time, and I've actually found it such a transformational period for me. So this book or all my books is very personal and a bit vulnerable, I have to be honest, because I've given a lot of myself as well. So I've noticed that many people can't cope with being alone too long, and I've coped with it quite well. So I have given lots of stories of myself. So there's a few different lenses where I've come in as a mental health professional, but also a person that relishes in solitude, and I've actually done really well with it.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yeah, and you've probably had to do some hard work on yourself as well, then. So let's talk about that loneliness factor from a love perspective, because yeah, whatever happens outside is brought into the workplace as well. So, yes, this podcast is called Ways to Change Your Workplace. The reason I've brought money on is because I I honestly truly think that we are the greatest project that we will ever work on money until the day I die. I say that about myself, and I hope our listeners believe that about themselves as well. So, what kind of work have you done on yourself? What kind of aspects have you covered to be okay in this space of being alone?

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah, exactly. And this is so irrelevant, isn't it? Because I work predominantly in workplaces and I work predominantly with professionals. When I go in and run workshops and seminars and speak, I might be talking about some technical things or stress management or whatever it might be. But you forget it though, don't you, in the professional space that every single person in there, every single person has a mind and body, and that actually needs to be nurtured because without that, you can't perform. You can't perform at your best professionally or personally, can you? No. So it really does start with that oxygen mask on first. And throughout the book, I talk about we're talking about being alone, but ultimately being alone and doing it well is about connecting to other people in your community and whether it's the workplace or your community, but also yourself. So it's a lot of that self-care that I'm talking about is so it's a book about only you, but ultimately it's about connection. Connect to yourself and what you know you need and nurture it, whether that's being physically active or hanging out with your friends or going on weekends away by yourself to know yourself a little bit better, all those sorts of things. Tap into those interests you love just because it's quite different work, just because it's fun. Because all of these things, you connecting to you actually makes you better at work, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Absolutely so. So you talked about the power of solitude. Now, double-edged sword here. I'm gonna throw this one at you. A lot of people are not okay with themselves, though, Marnie. And it's that it's that uncomfortableness, right? Because we are so used to now for anyone looking at the video, we're so used to this thing, our phone and other things just distracting us. I would say not occupying us, but distracting us, right? So we don't have those distractions, and then it's like, oh, it's only me now, it's only you now. Now what? Dude, you cover that in your book as well, and how how we address that funky, it's an awful feeling, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Exactly. And I think we're very quick to jump out of those, I guess, perceived negative emotions, aren't we? Yeah, so a lot of people won't sit in silence. Like well, sometimes I'll I'm in a workplace and I'll say to people, just sit in your chair for five minutes without touching anything or talking to anyone or reaching for your phone or all those sorts of things. Or I tell people to do it at home, just sit in a chair. Like don't put the telly on, don't put the radio, don't reach and it's painful for people because all you've got is yourself and what your mind's telling you. So one of the chapters in my book, I talk about having solitude to listen to what the themes are at your mind, or what are those thoughts? Because otherwise, if we have a particular train of thought and we've got like a ticker-tape parade of certain things and like ways of thinking in our mind, or things we tell ourselves, we just we we use some sort of vice, don't we, to get rid of it without learning what that's about. Yeah, why do you keep thinking that? Or where does that come from? Well, you've got to do something with those thoughts. So I do have a chapter to say, hey, you've got to manage your mind here because you can learn about what that ticker tape parade in your head is because it's telling you something. Tap into it and investigate it a little bit. And hey, you might need a mental health professional to help you with that, or a coach, or someone, but don't ignore it and also don't believe it as well. Yeah, yeah. Because then you end up becoming it like investigate it and be curious with it. So, yeah, I do talk about that. Solitude can be very powerful, but it also can bring up stuff. Exactly. It can really bring up stuff.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

I'll give you a personal story. It's not in fashion anymore, but do you remember the deprivation tank? So, you know, you go in, you float, the floating tank. Yes, you are really alone there, right? For an hour and you close the tank. I like it in the dark, I don't even have any light, I don't have any sound, and I'm okay with being by myself. So I was just promoting the crap out of this to everybody, to all of my friends. And then one friend tried it and she said, Prina, that was the worst thing you ever recommended to me. Please do not ever do that to me again. I was like, Whoa, whoa, strong words here, do that to you. What did I do to you in your words? And her response to me was I was left alone with my mind for an hour, and I could not handle it. It killed me. I couldn't handle the hour floating activity, the experience. It was a killer of an experience for her. So even an hour can just be turmoil for many people, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

To just get back to themselves. Exactly. And I see that all the time. And there's a slow becoming if you're left to your own devices and living a dress rehearsal for things that may never happen, particularly helpful. So, but that's running anyway in the background, isn't it? Like even if you're busy all the time, sometimes people are, so for example, workaholics, yeah, but sometimes they're avoiding something that's running in the background. So solitude in some ways can be uncomfortable at the beginning because you're left with just that. But whoa, what powerful information's gonna come up for you that you can learn about yourself? So know thyself. It can help you take the steering wheel of your life and make you perform better personally and professionally if you can tap into that mind of yours a little bit more and instead of uh covering it up all the time, sweeping things under the rug. What is that about? Let's get into it a little bit and figure out what's that about so you can uncover it and work on it, yeah, and then move forward. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

You you use the uh sentence steering wheel off your life. I talk about in my book, uh Make Work Meaningful, How to Create Culture Lives a Legacy. I talk about being are you the driver or the passenger of your career? Similar kind of lingo, yeah. So it's reminding us that we do have agency if we listen to the stuff that's going on in our head. So you're enabling us or you're pushing us in a firm manner, in a very important manner, to be alone with ourselves, to be that observer. So you're really here talking about that metacognition. And I know you can describe it better than I can. What is metacognition then? So I'm the observer, I'm looking at my thoughts. I'm outside of my mind, but looking at my thoughts. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

And it's thinking about the way you think. And I think a lot of busy people, busy professionals, just don't take the time to do that. They just feel, think, behave, or think, feel, behave. It just all happens very quickly, and we forget to be in that mindful, evaluative phase where we're because checking in on ourselves and connecting. We just move through and particularly when it's painful stuff. We don't have time to deal with that and we pack it away. But like I said before, it's running in the background, isn't it? A lot of the time.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

It's there nonetheless, especially when our head hits the pillow, I tell you, that's when everything comes up, does it not? Gosh. Exactly. Hello.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah, it happens all the time. But yeah, so throughout the book, I talk about the uncomfortable emotions that will come from that period of alone time. But what do you deal with it? Yeah, it's very normal. But don't sit in it for too long. Like use it as powerful data that's telling you what's working and what's not. And particularly relevant to that is, you know, how I was saying to you, a lot of people are when they're alone for a reason, like they're coming off the back of a breakup or a redundancy or whatever it might be, or someone's passed away in their life, and this will happen to all of us at some stage. There's a it's almost like a chemical soup that we're sitting in of emotions, yeah. But that's telling you so much. Most people will either drink through it, you have too many wines to get rid of that feeling, or you know, scroll their phones, or do unhelpful things, or even go straight into dating other people because it's so uncomfortable. But I'm saying, hey, sit in that period. It's supposed to be uncomfortable. Your heart's broken, or you're grieving, or you're stressed out, or whatever the feelings are. But what's that telling you? Yeah. They're telling you something really important. Uh so sit in it for a little longer and ask yourself why and what you actually need going forward.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

That's huge. I love the fact that you said also it is going to be hard and you're not going to be alone. You can seek mental health professional help, you can seek help of a coach, that kind of stuff as well. One of the things, Mani, I have to share this with you. I think you'll love it. Oh, let me just pull it out. So, one of the things I've been doing at length for years now, and a lot of my coaches do is self-coaching. Yeah. So I've got a little bit of a journal here, but Friday afternoon, 30 minutes is all it takes, right? What am I learning this week? How am I right now? How's my week been? What will my wins this week and what has felt like success? Because we need to celebrate ourselves. We often move on to the next thing, don't we? And then what are my challenges and triggers this week and what can I do to mitigate them? There's always crap that comes up. We always have to address stuff. Then what do I want to be held accountable for next week? But I don't stop just there because I can bullshit myself. But so I add this to my to-do list. So, what needs planning? What important things have no action steps attached to them? Do I need help? Do I need to delegate? Who do I need to engage with to make this happen? What is stopping me? How am I going to celebrate when I've achieved what I need to? So just a pause. So I was that person I'm telling you that you're talking about. I was just running on high speed. I didn't stop.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Exactly. Yeah. And that is the, I think, the client that I work most with is those people that are really busy. They're working a lot. They've got businesses and they're leaders, and they just go. And as you would know, when you're working with people, you're not just talking about work. No, that's talking about life. And yeah, it's that holistic approach, isn't it, to working better at work is actually what's going on in the background, right? Because there's as adults, we know that they're that they might be looking after children, there might be relationship issues, there might be health issues, they might be looking after the elderly parents. There's so many other things going on for the employee or the individual that yeah that we often don't talk about in the workplace. And often it is affecting performance at some level. Yeah, absolutely. It is. It's such a reflective tool, I think, to read a book and be self-reflective.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

Absolutely. So can I ask you, what are the signs that someone doesn't have a strong relationship with themselves yet? So someone's listening to this, they're thinking, okay, I need to do this, but how can they self-assess?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

It's a hard one, isn't it? Because I think a lot of people just gloss over it like we've just established. And I think some people will go throughout their life, their whole life. I think we all know someone who's a lot older who's never been self-reflective at all. And they might get to their 70s and 80s and have that kind of that moment where they're like, Did I live well? Did I love? Did I do well? That kind of dignity versus despair stage. And it comes up a lot later. And then if they didn't live well, then they feel regret or resentment. So sometimes people don't do that till later in life. So it's not so nice to have this conversation to say, start doing it now. Yeah. Even if you don't think you need to. Because I really think a lot of people don't think they need to be reflective. But some other people are. So if they're feeling like in you're not at ease or something, body and mind isn't quite right. Like they might be out of alignment in some way. You know that feeling where sometimes your body and your mind are whispering something to you and you don't know what it is. I think it doesn't have to be a big, big, massive thing like that happens to you. But sometimes I think, yeah, your body and mind are whispering to you all the time in subtle ways, and we just gloss over it. So I would say to people, everyone, just slow down and be mindfully ambitious in life. Like still have all your goals and dreams, but just be in a constant state of reflection to go, is it working? Is it not? How am I feeling? So that you can pick up on that. Because many people that I do work with, it's not sometimes until the big stuff happens, like burnout or a horrible diagnosis where they are forced to be reflective. So it's actually a hard question to answer because I think there's so many subtle ways of doing that.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

And it it seems to me as a mental health professional that people only really listen when there's someone around them gets sick or a big life event happens or a big health challenge happens mentally or physically. So it's so important to listen all the time, like all the time for all of us.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

No, there's big words, resilience, adaptability, all of that kind of stuff that are thrown around. You're really talking about resilience, but you're talking about presilience. So this is getting me ready before the thing even happens, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Exactly. I mean, this stuff should be taught about it taught in schools, shouldn't it? So that our kids are always tapping in to how they're feeling, and then being curious and go, why am I feeling like that? Is that something I could problem solve? Is it something I can challenge my mind with? Or perhaps it's just a matter of self-care at the moment. And I just do the things that I know make me feel good. So we should always, from a very young age, be learning that, that emotional agility, so that once we're adults and we're at work or we're dealing with a a conflict in our relationship or whatever it might be, or we're stuck by ourselves for far too long in our own opinion, we know what to do with that. So it doesn't end up in a despair type of state. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Your despair. I love what you said. And you talked about being mindfully ambitious as well. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

I think sometimes we think that ambition means to be go, hustle all the time. And it's to do it healthily. Little word, healthily, healthy. I'll make it a word. Healthy. We need to just stop for a moment in between our goals and our dreams and just keep mindfully checking in and say, How am I feeling? Am I well healthily? Like health-wise, am I feeling well mentally? Am I doing well? Emotionally, spiritually? And just check in and listen. I like that space. As though it is as important, which is it is, as a doctor's appointment or a Zoom call or a boardroom meeting. It has to be as important as those things that we automatically put in our diaries. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Yes, absolutely. So when I'm coaching, I do only executive coaching now. So when I'm coaching execs, I really talk about creating that space for yourself and just reconnecting with yourself. Okay. That's one thing. And then the other thing as well is okay, yes, you've got to this stage in your career, but you know, some people they get to that stage in their career, they've ticked all of the boxes, but they're still that missing thing. They're still that and yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

And it's such a strange feeling for people, isn't it? It is like something's missing, like they've been go probably since year nine or yeah, on and then they go out into the teenage worlds, a lot of them have gone to uni or work themselves way their way up in life, and yeah, they've just gone on a socially defined pathway, almost in an automated sleepwalking kind of state. And I think I've been there and haven't been reflecting, you're just doing it in a way that the world has told you to do it. And I think that's the powerful thing about being an adult, probably an a more older adult in mid middle age onwards, is that we start going, hang on a second, all the themes that I almost unconsciously thought I wanted. Now I'm like, is that it? Is that really well yeah? So there's a lot of change can happen. But if we stop and reflect and listen to yourself, it's a catalyst, isn't it? For us working differently or just changing different elements of our life so that we can get on a better path that's more aligned with who we actually are. And often that doesn't happen until after 40, I think.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Yep, yeah, with many people, absolutely so I want to ask you a personal question if you're okay with it.

SPEAKER_04 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

What has surprised you most in your own journey with being alone?

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah, I think I'm like everybody I'm talking to in the book. You know how sometimes you write a book, and I'm sure you're the same, where you're talking to the person that was you before you knew what you know now. Yep, it's the perfect book, isn't it? Yeah. It's like you were there. You're talking to your reader, going, Hey, I feel like you're feeling like I'm not just a professional that does this for a living now. I've actually been there. I felt how you felt. So there's been periods of time where I was alone and a relationship broke up, and I went straight into dating for people because that's what you do and that's what society tells you to do. And it's almost like society expects you to be coupled up. Yes. So I did that. I've had a broken heart and I've been a bit what that in terms of all of that. So I felt exactly how my readers would feel. But yeah, once I pushed past that and spent more time by myself, uncomfortable as it was at times, I got through that and started tapping into myself a little bit more and listening to what I truly wanted. And a lot of it was working on my career more, and it was spending more time writing or spending more time with my kids or actually really relishing in my friendships or working on my health more, like all listen to myself or what I actually needed. And that wasn't a relationship at the moment. And this is not about me saying, don't ever be in a relationship again. It's not that type of book. It's about listening to what you actually need now. Is it a relationship? Or do you need to hang out with your friends more? Do you need to have time to work on your physical health or hey, do you need just more spare time to be? Don't default into straight away going to a relationship because it might not be that. You might be repeating old patterns that didn't work before. So yeah, I think it allows me to stop and go, what do you actually really need? And I think I've listened to that more than I ever did before. Wow, that's massive. And it's giving you agency to create the life that you want. Exactly. And like next year that may change or the year after. I just like some I might just meet someone that will be just like, yes, this is a bonus to the life that I've created. But I just want that to happen more organically rather than me pushing for things that might not be right at the moment. So I kind of urge people to do that more, weight in the uncomfortableness of the emotions instead of like glossing over them or blunting them in some way or numbing them in some way. And yeah, just listen to what that truly might be about.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

It'd be a better thing to do. Beautiful. I've got a couple of final questions for you. So if people took one idea from your book and actually applied it, what would you want it to be? What is the one thing especially that you want people to get? It's come from your heart, hasn't it? This one, especially, I know.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

It has, yeah. It's the one I've wanted to write for a very long time. Yeah. It is like just remembering almost that the most transformative transformative relationship you can ever have is actually with yourself. It's not with other people. Yeah. That's it first. Oxygen mask on first, because the flow and effect is with other people. So ultimately, this book is about connection.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

I love the statement. I use this statement. You are the greatest project that you will ever work on. So I think your whole book talks to that as well. It's gorgeous. Yeah. Compassionate, much needed. From a workplace perspective as well, so many people feel lonely, even though they're within teams, they may be alone at home or in their personal life. But it is listening to the data. And from a workplace perspective, you've got so much support at work as well, in terms of getting a coach, getting counseling support as well. So reminding people that they're not alone as well is a big factor. Well, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah, yes. I mean, peer periods of alone time and solitude is very important for us just as human beings, but ultimately we are pack animals. So it doesn't mean we need to be coupled up with a partner, but we have to make sure that we have a village. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

So you are rewriting the concept of loneliness. So yes, you might be alone, but it takes a village as you said. So you create your own family, you create your own network, you create your own bonds of that sort because we all freaking can.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

That's hard work as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yeah, and it does require the effort, doesn't it? Like a lot of feeling now where we can go home and like lock the door and technically can be alone. But just this is why the emotions, if loneliness is telling you something, like if you feel lonely, that's telling you that you need to be connected. So what are the behaviors and actions you can take to do that? Is it in the workplace with your work? Because to your point, you can actually get psychological help, or you've got colleagues, or there's groups, or industry, there's lots of things that you probably can do in your workplace that can actually ease that loneliness. So listen to it. Yeah. What it's telling you. Is there something in your community? Is it something in your friendship group? Like, do you need to reconnect with people from the past? Or do you need to find new people? What is that loneliness telling you? Listen to it.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Yeah, I think the biggest lesson I'm getting from you is to tap into ourselves and listen to what's happening. Because that is good data, not to ignore. And that voice is on repeat as well. Let's be honest, it's not gonna go away if we ignore it, it's still gonna carry on. So we need to tune into that. Money, this podcast is called Ways to Change the Workplace. And I have one final question for you. If I was to hand you a magic wand with Mani Lijman, I've got a shiny wand here. What is one thing you would do to change the way of the workplace? You could choose anything.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Oh, you know how I was saying to you before, I just think kids like me to be taught emotional agility. So I would say that if anyone at any age, and I think a lot of people in the workplace, because we at our age now we weren't taught this at school, is tap into those emotions. Yeah, it's that piece around emotional agility. Listen to yourself, your body and mind are whispering things to you all the time.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

And I think workplaces are they're a captured audience to be able to teach people this. So yeah, so I think that's what I think the world needs a bit more emotional agility so that we have that self-awareness and we know what to do with it in a better way. And I think workplaces and the world, if we could control that a little bit more, like our behaviors would change, our performance in life would change.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

Absolutely. So beautiful. So what I'm gonna do is in the show notes, you are gonna have Marnie's details, including her book's details. I'm gonna give you details of the self-coaching and workbook that I just talked you through. Marnie, I'm gonna add something else as well because this really helped me. I'm gonna add a link to the feelings wheel, which is by the Gottman Institute. So the F-word for me, feelings, was really frigging hard to actually tune into or tap into when I first started talking about feelings. And it just gives you more of a vocabulary with feelings, doesn't it? The feelings wheel. So anyone starting off on this journey who really wants to tap into themselves, please look at all of the resources and reach out to Marnie, reach out to myself. And if you've got any questions, if you want us to talk about something else as well, I got Marnie on the show. I can bring her back. Tell me what you need, tell me what you want from Marnie as well. For sure. Mani, it has been a pleasure. Until the next time. Thank you so much. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

All details about this episode are in the show notes. If you like this episode, I'd like you to take a moment and think about at least two people who might enjoy it. And the episode details with that. Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and on Instagram.