122. How You Can Take Advantage of Video Communication with Joeri Schilders and Prina Shah

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hello and welcome to this episode of Ways to Change the Workplace with myself Prino Sharp. I love what I do. I'm a global leadership coach, a consultant, a trainer, a keynote speaker, a podcaster. I help you to develop your leaders, your teams, and I help you to optimize your organizational cultures. I'm here to help you find ways to change your workplace. Why? Because we spend more time in our waking day at work than we do with our loved ones. It has to be a good place to be. So in this podcast, you can expect a mix of interviews with amazing thought leaders and then some solo episodes from myself as well. Get ready. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Ways to Change Your Workplace podcast with myself, Prina Shah, and I'm very, very excited to be finally introducing you today to my friend Yuri Shielders, who's all the way from the Netherlands, all the way in cold Netherlands now. Given up the sun, Yuri, what's up?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

I've given up the sun because you know too much sun isn't good for you either. You know, all this lovely weather and beaches. I thought, let's go back to a place with a bit of rain and drizzle and just gray, miserable UK-like weather most of the year. We moved back because we were cooped up during uh during uh COVID for about two years in Singapore, uh, because we all had to all cooped up. And we decided to go somewhere else because we got a bit tired of living on a hot and steamy island.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

My wife got, well, my now wife got an opportunity to uh work in the Netherlands, and that's why we moved over here. So I'm back kind of back at where I came from, which is a bit weird after 25 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Full circle. And uh, for people who don't know, I'm gonna do a bit of an intro to your Yuri, if I may. It's uh it's more of a personal introduction. So the professional introduction is coming, coming, coming. But I've known Yuri for since the pandemic, actually, Yuri. Oh my gosh. And I would have to say, Yuri has become a friend tour to me. I have learned so much from you, Yuri, that I don't think even you know about. So I I cannot even thank you enough. One of the biggest things I learned from Yuri, and this is when I was setting up my business, I did a course that he and my friend Leanne ran, virtually VP. Uh, what was it called? Virtually possible.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Virtually possible because people thought it was virtually impossible to take all this online. We said, no, no, it is virtually possible.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Nice pun on the neck, virtually possible, a hundred percent. And thank you for all of the lessons. I and you're still in my head, by the way, at times when I'm doing stuff like no, Yuri's taught us this, so it's still there. And today, Yuri, I want to talk to you about how we can take advantage of video communication. Ironic that we're on audio, but for the visual people, this is also on YouTube. So check out my YouTube and Yuri's YouTube. My god, here's a superstar. You need to check out his YouTube. And he's very modest. But before we kick off, Fury, what do you do in your own words and why do you do it?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

I do two main things. So I'll basically help people, I like to say, create, build, and share better ideas. Years ago, when I started, I would have said, I'm an innovation catalyst or I'm an innovation consultant. Yeah, but innovation is a very loaded word. So I, if we backtrack a bit, so my degree is in uh Mandarin for international business and purpose, nothing to do with what I do now, but it brought me to China. I worked there for so many years in small consultancies and training companies, got into facilitation, uh dealing with groups of people, and then in I think it was 2007, I joined uh uh one at that time the largest independent innovation agencies in the world and got to apply all that learning to innovation, so to helping people solve problems and launch new products and uh rethink their business models and find new and different ways to connect with customers. Nice creative work in a business setting. Um, and then I've been doing that ever since. I just do it for myself, and I've been doing this for myself for the last 10 years with a group of friends, because for people listening, and if you've ever worked with me, I used to always say associates. It's exactly the same thing, people. If you heard me say associates, I just call them associates because uh working with a group of friends when you're working with a big fortune 500 company, they don't always like that word. So we say, you know, we they they're they're so they're not friends, they're not freelancers, they're associates. But at the end of the day, it's a group of 10, 15 friends I've been working with for years. We um work with clients on solving their problems. You know, we inject some fresh insights and ideas into what they need. We help them launch stuff so they go, hey, we have an idea, what do we do with it now? Or sometimes they're not even working on the right challenge. So getting the upfront bit right to make sure that we ask the right questions, we start off on the right track. To avoid it, six months later, we've launched something that nobody needs, and just a big waste of big waste of time, energy, and money. And while I was doing this, I got all these requests from clients who said, Can you help us uh run a brainstorm? Or can you help us um uh yeah, how do you how do you test ideas? Can you can you run a two-hour workshop on this? And they they were usually small bits of work for which often there was no budget and no real priority, but it was like it was like a nice to have. Yeah, I then thought, look, I'm not really gonna focus too much on that because what am I gonna charge for a three-hour brainstorm on a Friday afternoon? We'd like to stick to bigger, more more meaty strategic project. I hate that word strategic, but you know what I mean. Kind of more bigger, multifaceted stages, longer term, go deeper uh into the the challenges at hand. Yeah, so what I started doing is create these short videos on YouTube that were all about that. So um, if somebody would go, can you help us with a three-hour brainstorm for your uh for our work uh Christmas party? I would say, but we don't do this, but got a couple of videos over here that will tell you what to do before doing and after, three five-minute videos, but a couple of downloads and just do it yourself, DIY it. And that turned out to be uh very useful for two reasons because one, people liked it, yeah. And then my my my after my comment after that would always be here's some free stuff, go go go watch it, do it yourself. Here's downloadable, feel free. If you want more, give me a call. And the other one I did it was, of course, a nice bit of bit of marketing tool, things I could share on LinkedIn, I could share with clients. So you kind of knew what we were working on. It gives a face to what can be seen as like a like a business agency, creative agency. So it was uh it made it easier for people to connect with me. It was a great marketing tool, but and I've been doing that ever since. So it's kind of running the business in itself, kind of creative projects, yeah. Um, and then kind of I create content around that mainly through videos.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Now, your business is called the magic sauce, the magic sauce, and please, please, please, listeners. Yuri is very modest here. You need to check out his uh video skills, it is something else, on his YouTube channel, which I'm gonna um link to the show notes. And Yuri, today I want to talk to you about how we can take advantage of video communication in the workplace, given that the world of work has changed and continues to evolve. So I want your thoughts on the current state, and I really want to pick your brain about the future as well, the potential future, right? Yes. So the majority of us, I would say, probably now are working in a hybrid environment. Therefore, I feel, especially from my clients' perspective perspective, Yuri, video has just really been amped up, you know, whether it be this kind of a Zoom or a Teams meeting or even um global teams sending each other videos and connecting with each other through the medium of video. It has really changed from a workplace perspective, which is fascinating. And I want to ask you why the big question first off, why should leaders use video communication?

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Well, why shouldn't they? It's readily available, it's free, it's in your hands. We have a little device in our hands for the people watching. I'm just holding up my phone. Somebody once told me that this thing holds more computational power than Ronald Reagan had at his hands in the 80s, and maybe even Bill Clinton. I don't know about that. But my point is, why not? It's readily available. What video does is an easy way to give a lot more color and a lot more context to what you're doing, like we're doing now. If you are listening to this, I'm I'm gonna try to be as animated as possible because it's maybe I I enjoy it when people um have a bit of cadence in their voice, a bit of inflection. But why not add a face to that? Why not add some visuals to that? And I say visuals because some people might be thinking, Well, I'm really not comfortable on video. Why not use animations here? You can use this, you don't it doesn't just have to be your face. There's lots of people online, particularly cooking channels, where you don't even see the face. It's a it's a top view camera or phone uh of the hands while they're preparing their whatever Filipino adobo chicken or something like that. Yeah, yeah. So it is it is readily available for all of us with programs that are getting easier and easier to edit. Yeah, so it's it's taken video making out of the hands of um these these uh high hyper special specialized um experts in the field, yeah. And and by the way, when I say this, if somebody's listening to this who is a you know a video maker or like an old school um camera person or an editor, I don't think your job will go. I think there's there's a whole next level of video making and filmmaking, which people people like you and me are probably not gonna get into it. We're too far away from that. Having said that, the everyday video, like this is what this is what we're doing now, send me a little video message. Why not? It's readily available, like I said, and I think more people should take advantage of that. And it's amazing that after so many years, we still use email, and even more amazing that we still use words like I will write you an email. That makes no sense. We've been typing for 40, 50 years now, if not longer. Well, longer actually. We still say we still say write you an email. So we hang on to things from the past, yeah. Um, without exploring the future, because the future is always a bit scary, and oh, I can't do this. There's some limiting beliefs there, yeah. It's a wonderful opportunity to uh to use video, uh, and particularly as a leader. If if your a big part of your role, um I would assume is is to communicate. I work with with leaders all the time, yeah. And you know, how they communicate, what they say and how they say it, is uh kind of crucial to how people feel about the organization, how the organization connects with customers. I think video is a great tool for that. So there's kind of a long-winded answer, but why not? Why not? It's readily very it's never been easier, basically, and probably only will get easier as we go.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

100%. And I feel that in society now, I think the majority of us, generally speaking, are used to video. This is the norm now, you know, especially all of the scrolling and stuff that we do. Um, and like you said, video is readily available to us all. You also said that it's so much per so much more personal. I think you said that, or I wrote it down. Yeah, it is very much more personal. And I'm thinking, you know, from a workplace perspective, and then Yuri, when you were talking, I went to my mom. So using society and my mom, hey mom, as an example, she'll love this. Um I have seen that the change in her. Let's say. So I'll give you the example of my mom. She's in her late 60s, pretty isolated. COVID was awful. She's on her own in the UK. Um, as soon as my sister got her a smartphone, my mom's life and her social um aspect of her life really blew up thanks to video, things like WhatsApp, video calls, all that sort of stuff. So even old people like my mom can embrace video and technology in that respect. It's the most simplest form if you look at it that way. It is accessible, it is there for us all. And it connects us, which is the other thing that we always talk about from a workplace perspective, especially the larger the organization goes or you know, global, we need to be connected even more. And how do we do that? Through the medium of video.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yeah, look, it it doesn't replace human contact because that's what we that's what we need. If there's if there's one thing I've learned over the last couple of years, which are kind of new and I think I really felt it is yeah, we need we need personal touch. It's very simple. Like we need to physically be around people, it changes us. And if you are finding yourself doom scrolling on social media, which I sometimes do, I go, ah, shall I respond to this or not? Shall I the best way to do it is just to step away from that machine and go outside. But we're not talking about that. It doesn't, it doesn't beat that. I get that, but it beats email, it beats boring slides, it beats so many traditional forms of communication which we have that can easily be replaced. You just brought up Lianne, yeah, and the virtually possible program that we did for the for the listeners. Virtually possible came in the middle of the pandemic, everybody's at home, didn't know what to do. So I don't know how to work on video. Yeah, we had some experience, we set up this program to help people get better on camera. How do you set the technical aspect of it? Uh, how do you speak? How do you use multimedia? How do you use whiteboards? Things like that. It was very practical, very, very pertinent to that time. Um, and Lianne and I set up that entire program through voice and video messages on WhatsApp. Now, for the listeners, I had never met her before. I just knew her from LinkedIn. We set up something. That's a good example of with clever technology, while we're all cooked up at home.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

With a couple of videos, we managed to set up something that is was up and running, like a small business that is up and running with a bunch of customers. And that's that's the power of doing something like that. And I think you can only do that if you step away from the idea that video is for special people. I think one big thing that stops people's video is either you're a YouTuber or a TikToker or a news anchor or a celebrity. That's the first kind of limiting belief. I don't, that's nothing to do with that.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Um, and I think the other one is this whole thing, it has to be slick and well edited.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

So so many times I explain something, I might have an early prototype. Let's say it's a physical prototype for clients. What easier way I can have a pre- I can I can call for a meeting, um, have pictures and slides up there, and we all get on Teams or on Zoom, and I can explain this. Is this the whatever I worked on a brief around like re-uh reinventing a store, basically a new concept store.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

So I could show that on slides and things during a meeting, or I asynchronously showed that we mocked up a little store made of cardboard boxes and kind of tables and stuff and a bunch of tape and posters. And I took a quick video and I said, So here's the idea of the store. Like people walk in over here, and then over there, we've got we're gonna have an oyster bar, etc. And that was it. And there was a there was a 60-second video, like no, no, no editing at all, just in a in a in an empty place in in Singapore, we'd set up, and people love that. They they get it right away. Is is everything you need in that one little video? No, but that's not the point of that video because people might say, Well, there's a time and a place for email. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yep, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

There's also there's also there's also time and a place where a quick video or a call would be a lot better.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

100%. Um, can we go back to limiting beliefs? Because I was in a funk, and okay, Yuri can be very direct, which is what I like. No, the Dutch and the Indians are similar in that respect. Uh, so Yuri. I don't I don't think you remember what you said to me, but it was direct. It was direct. I'm telling you. Okay, so my limiting beliefs when we spoke, or when we were doing the virtually possible uh course was oh my gosh, well no, I can't put out you know videos out there because I'm not a professional, I've I've just got a phone, and then the other thing the other thing I used to say to myself also is but Yuri, it has to be good, it has to be professional. This is my brand. Do you remember what you said?

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah, nobody cares. Is that what I said? Is that the one, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:37

That is one thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah, yeah, kind of. And you know, this is not mine. I've probably heard somebody say this, but it it always resonated with me because it's very true. Nobody cares. Um, and and the reason I know this, so the whole idea behind this is when people think it has to be perfect, or I need to look a certain way, or what if I what if I put a video out there and people think I look silly, or you know, or I say the wrong thing, and I always say the same thing, nobody's gonna watch your stuff in the beginning anyway. But it's in a social media context. So let's say there's somebody wants to create videos for LinkedIn or YouTube, nobody's gonna watch your stuff in the beginning. Uh, on the other hand, if it's just a video that, for instance, you send to other people, like nobody cares. It's about the message, like just get over yourself because everybody's focused on themselves anyway. And and I know this because I used to shoot videos outside all the time, I would just go walk out and about and send people video messages. You know, this I sent you some. Yeah, I don't care. In the beginning, I thought, well, people are gonna think I look weird, and then I thought, okay, and then what? Yeah, the world's not gonna end. That to me is the biggest barrier when it comes to creating videos. But that comes from what I said before. That if you if you believe that video is only for certain people, or you think you sound weird or your nose looks weird, I could tell you, you know what, it probably does, but you're the only one that notices it anyway. I also notice my nose and the way my hands move and the way my voice sounds, and everybody has the same cringe, and once you know that everybody's got the same cringe, it becomes an equalizer again. So who can't do it anyway? Yeah, then the more you do it, the more you do it, the better you get, like with almost anything in life. Um, and you you just get you get very comfortable. Your videos will become better, so they'll become more engaging, they'll become clearer, you you're able to convey your message easier. Yeah, and that helps the uh the viewer and or the listener as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

It's win-win.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

But nobody cares. Yeah, it is win-win.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Please remember that. Anyone listening, no one really cares. And it is so true. So, big lesson there, which I still remember. Vividly, yep. Um, now you already talked about video as being a tool for collaboration. How can video be used as a better tool for creating engaging virtual meetings? I'm not talking about those painful ones. How can we use video better to be more engaging with those online meetings, Yuri?

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Nice. I have a big thing about so synchronous and asynchronous meetings. Everybody's on there at the same time, yeah, versus let's say an email you send before or a video you send before. Yeah, combine the two when you can. I work with I usually work with teams that who are in different countries. Right right now, I'm working on something here. It's a team where if I think really quickly, I think the furthest one is in Indonesia and the other side of the world will be in US, sorry, Pennsylvania. Because of that, meetings can be a bit of a drag because of just purely time differences. And I think a lot of people can relate. So, one way to mitigate against that is that you can cut your meeting times a lot shorter by using, let's say, videos up front. So, for instance, if I have a demo I want to share, so I've done something and I want to show what I've done. Why would I wait for everybody to be on the call, take the first 15 minutes talking through the context, how we got here then showing what we have versus versus sending it, people sending people a video early on. Oh, it doesn't have to be a video, I like pictures, whatever, but send people stuff before. On Friday, on Friday, we're gonna be looking at this. I want you to do two things, be clear in your instructions. So I've got a little video, I'm gonna show you the store. So I want you to watch the video and two, give me two things that you think that we should change just prepare for the meeting. Now, whether people do this or not, I mean you can trick people into making it, you know, you can make sure people do it. Yeah, but what that does is people can watch it in their own time. Make sure if you can that it's in a format that's easy for people to watch anywhere. So, what I mean with that is if they have to go onto a website and download something and then hop on there, it'll be harder. Send it via WhatsApp or Teams or whatever, something you have available. Send them a little link. There's lots of nice tools out there and and freely available, just so you know. Send them back before. Um, that by the time people people rock up, they already know what to do. Or you make that even better. You use multimedia, you send a little video. Yeah, here's a layout of the store that we've designed. Once you look at it, watch the video, give me two things that we need to change, and then here's a link to a whiteboard, put your ideas up here. Any kind of pictures you have of other examples you've seen in other sources, put it up here, and then on Friday we're going to discuss. By the time people get there, you're not waffling on and on about a presentation people could have watched in their own time, which you now give them to do. Now you can use that time to just get to the point, and then your meetings will go from an hour to 20 minutes. Most of my meetings recently have been like 15 minutes because I prepare people, and I and and I'm and I'm also, by the way, I'm quite strict with clients just so you know if you ever work with me. Um, I I will go until you've done this, we are not going to do this. So until you've actually given you input on uh I'm working on a video right now on a script, yeah, we're not gonna have that meeting. So I think to make your meetings more engaging, I think is to make them shorter when you where you can cut out the cut out the the waffle, yeah, cut out the noise, and I know. You can do this by using tools like video and other multimedia before and after as asynchronous tools that people can check in on. It just makes a lot more engaging, it breaks up your meeting, it gives people time to think. I'm an extrovert, which means I think while I uh I speak while I think so I can look at something, kind of start blah, blah, blah already while I'm figuring out my thoughts. For a lot of people, they don't have that. And people feel missed out on meetings when they don't get that chance. So why not give them something early on? They can go internal, let that sink in, uh, formulate their thoughts, and then come back to you. So in that in that case, I think it's just I that's what it's I don't know why people are not using it more.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

It's so more so much more inclusive in one respect in that we all learn differently, and some people can go blah blah blah blah blah, like myself and Yuri. We can ring it. Others really need time to think, time to digest, and they can't think on the fly, which you know, nothing wrong with that either. We need those kind of deep thinkers for the other kind of thinking. So it enables others to do some pre-work or pre-reading, whatever it might be. I sometimes send some pre-reading, uh, some podcasts to listen to beforehand, some questions beforehand to get you thinking, Yuri, right? That's all it is to get the creative juices flowing so that the meeting is going to be effective. I think the other big thing you uh talked about is in relation to having those shorter meetings, whoever is the um, I guess the agenda owner of the meeting needs to manage it well. And it sounds like from your own experience and you know the way that you work with your clients, you manage time well as well, because time is such a precious resource. And if wasted, people are gonna resent you.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

I think so, I think so. I uh time is the only resource you really have, I've always heard. The only meaningful one, at least, and the one you're not gonna get back. Be as respectful with people's times. Um at the same time, my own time management can be quite hard because sometimes I can't I can't just come up with a solution or with a plan from 9 a.m. till 10 p.m. on a Tuesday. It doesn't always work that way. I I'm one of these creative people that needs to go for a walk, for a run, that needs to talk through my ideas. By the way, also a great way for video is sometimes I I need to talk through something. I might just send a video to somebody who I know and to get a response from them. So it's a nice way to capture your thoughts, but at the same time get some feedback on those thoughts. But so because I don't have a lot of control over that time, I don't want to make sure that by the time we do get together, you make it really you make it really easy. And sprinkling some sprinklings of videos. We watch videos, I don't know how many hours of video. I think if you're a younger generation, watches like four or five hours of video every day. Yeah, um, for you know, for for good or for bad reasons, I don't think it's all good. Yeah, um, but yeah, but why not use it? That's um it's it's it's people people will thank you for it, people will love you for it.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Totally. No, Yuri, I talked about people being connected through video and us, you know, getting on better, doing better work, all of that kind of stuff. Uh helping the thinkers, you know, who are quick thinkers, slow thinkers get their pace. But one thing I haven't talked about, and I want to ask you this question Does video actually exclude people? So you work with global teams, with I guess English as your main language often? Um does video exclude people? What have you come across?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

What do you mean by exclude?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Okay, so let's say from a hearing perspective, a language perspective, um is anything missed from a video perspective, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Heap, heaps, heaps. There's lots missed from uh from an email as well. There's a heap of lots missed from it, it is right. So uh interesting point. So my my mind went the reason I ask you, like, what does it mean? Because yeah, I I went this way, my thinking, I'll explain to you what that is, and then when I ask you what the what the meaning of it was, I went another way. Cool. I'll start with I'll start with the second one because you said people may be uh maybe people who have problems with hearing or something like that. I've never even thought about it that way. Okay, so when it comes to my video inclusion, if there's anybody here that goes, you you don't cater enough for people that have or hearing, I apologize. What I do have in my uh online content, and of course that's getting better and better, is subtitles. Yes, so you can cater for people that and nowadays most of it is AI generated, and most of it you can switch languages. So hurrah for that because you can send it to Portuguese uh and to whatever language that you want. So that's kind of cool. So my my I didn't even think about it that way, but I I don't I don't personally I don't cater for that enough, and maybe I should be more aware of that. I've not had anybody on my case for that saying you didn't cater for this, yeah. So good point. Never even thought about it that way. It got got me thinking. I am gonna think about that one. Where initially my point went, uh where my mind initially went was I've seen a post on LinkedIn where the point was that if you use uh a video resumes, that was it. So I'm I'm a big fan of video resumes, yeah. People who don't know video resume is rather than sending a PDF document, you create a one-minute video saying, Hey everybody, my name is Yuri. I'm here to apply for the job of ABC, and here's what I've done that several times.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Um, I applied for the global head of um innovation at Lego, and I I what happened was you remember that one, right? So I always said, so I'm I'm fairly unemployable for the listeners. Um I I'm a uh for a variety of reasons. So I need I need a lot of freedom basically. Uh not that wow, but uh I need a bit of a I need a bit of I need a lot of space. I don't just run very well in in small enclosed spaces and corporate spaces. But I've I always said if there's a job at Lego, I I love Lego, grew up with it. Uh I love what the company stands for, what they do, what they make, the quality of products, the messaging, everything. So I always said if there's a I don't really do job jobs per se. However, yes, there's ever going to be a nice opportunity at Lego, I'm going to shoot for that one. There's a global head of innovation at Lego. It was a big job, big shoes. I didn't really think I was gonna get it, not because of my skills, more because the the role made more sense for an internal move. That's it's not somebody you would hire from the outside, it's too too high risk. But hey, I'm high, you know. Like I said, nobody cares. What's the worst thing that's gonna happen? They go, like, who's this dweeb sending a video? Okay, fine, then then don't like my stuff. Like, I care. I've got my four friends, I've got an I've got all I need. So I put together a video, and um what happened was I had missed a deadline for application by a couple of like I think almost quite literally minutes. I cut out of the system, an SAP system cannot can no longer apply. So I quickly created a video over the weekend and I basically sent it out into the world and got people to tag people within Lego and said, go check out this guy. I got a callback from somebody within Lego, very high up. Uh I think he runs a creative play, it's like a big creative arm of Lego. I got a call back and basically said, Look, I want to talk about the role. And one of his first points was that was really cheeky, but you got our attention. So, video is a great way to stand out. Um and but and by the way, who knows in five years when everybody's using video, going back to 100 written notes is gonna stand out again. So I'm all when when they zag you, zig or the other way around, something like that. Yeah, but when it comes to video, um, video resumes or video CVs, it's an easy way to stand out. The point on LinkedIn was it's not fair to people because some people might be very uncomfortable on video, some people might be very much aware of how they look, some people are not as eloquent, they might not have the materials. Um, and I think a lot of this came from an American point of view, which is much more of a we don't want to show our face because we don't want to be biased based on our skin tone or our gender, things like that. Fair enough. I don't know the American context. I I've never worked in the US as in I've never been employed in the U.S. I don't know about that. But I I looked at it from a different point of view where the point was it's not fair to people uh who, for instance, are not good on camera. And I said, Well, how's that any different for me saying I'm you know, um let's say I'm not by the way, but let's say I'm dyslexic, I'm not good with writing, and if I send somebody a nicely word smithed, wordcrafted cover letter in a CV, well, I'm at a disadvantage because one, English is not my first language, and two, uh, I might have problems writing. Like, how's that any different? Yeah, and that's no answer to that one. So I thought that was a fair point to make. At least I think you should everybody should be able to use uh their tools to their advantage. Um, and even if somebody says, Well, isn't that an unfair advantage? Yes, that's right. I believe in making use of unfair advantages. I mean, don't be a dick about it, but there is a way to use what you have and to use that in a smart way. So, does it does it um, I think your question is more about like, does it hinder people, does it exclude people? Yeah, yeah, it probably does. Yeah, it probably does. Uh, however, I think in most, particularly in the Western world, all of us have this thing. So, in that in that case, it's commoditize. It's not that much like you can't do this because I have a phone and you don't. You could make a case for maybe uh a somebody with more financial resources, maybe more time in this, but I think you can that can be said about anything out there. You know, it's an unfair advantage that I get the time to say of chatting to you, which you know gets me plugged into more people around the world. Yeah, sure. But I think uh no, I think everybody's got a got a fair fair chance to use it. I don't think everybody has to use it, by the way. No, I think you can, it's it's just one of the things that's out there. I don't think you have to, you don't have to do anything.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

That's the thing. So, okay. Uh, one of the other things I have been helping many organizations with Yuri, and you might come across this in the work that you do as well. There's five generations in a workplace now, five generations working in the workplace. So this is me 100% generalizing. So please pinch of salt, okay, when you're listening to this or watching the video. Let's say generalization and please salt pinching here going. The younger ones are far more uh able with technology, and the older ones are less able. Generalization, huge generalization there. But generally speaking, that's what's happening, and now organizations are bringing in all of this different kind of technology, which includes you know different forms of video tech as well, Yuri. And they're saying, shit, this is not working. What would you say to them with the quandary that they have? Age, youngies, oldies, and the gap in between in relation to technology. Advice for organizations because they're going gangbusters on you know systems and oh my gosh, contracts which last for years upon years, they're locking into these tech systems, Yuri. Your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 32:55

I just talked about using things to your advantage.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

And I don't I don't think you have to use video. By the way, it's you don't have to use video for everything. Like in many cases, just call somebody, honestly. Like, you don't have to create a video to ask Prina where she's going for lunch. I mean, you can just call Prina and say, Shall we go for lunch somewhere, right? So there's a time and a place. There are tools available at your disposable. And I made the point earlier, they've been commoditized, they've been they've been freed up for uh people like you and me to use. Whether you have a fancy phone or not, we all have a camera in our hands. Yeah, um, it's up to people to learn new things or not. I would argue that it's never been easier to learn things. Learning is at the tip of your fingers because of something called the internet, where people have spent millions of hours, and I know because one of my three-minute videos can take me 10-15 hours to put together, but people spend millions of hours, if not trillions of hours, putting together content to help you do something. It's either there to entertain you or to solve a problem. So there are videos out there around how you can create, let's say all you have is a camcorder. Remember those things, those big bricky things from the 90s? Let's say all you have is a camcorder. I bet you there's videos online that say, how can you use your old camera, uh, your old camcorder as a webcam, or how can you use your old camcorder to create a video in 2024? So there's little excuse when it comes to gear or knowledge available. And the next point is do you wanna, do you wanna do you want to like do you want to use it? And there we are back at the limited beliefs. If you believe, if you believe that you're too old to learn something, well, you probably are. If you believe something's not gonna work, you're probably right. It's the same thing here. I started video making at the tender age of 40. I turned 47 yesterday. I started Brazilian Juditsu last year and I got my first stripe. You can learn anything at any time. Yes, there's limitations to age, and yes, and when you and your all your friends are surrounded by social media and devices, of course they're going to be better. I I don't doubt that. To my earlier point, we we don't ask you to be Martin Sorsesi, we don't ask you to be the next uh PewDiePie or Mr. Beast YouTuber. All we're saying is use that little device in your pocket to your advantage and communicate in a way that's asynchronous and is more available and acceptable for other people. That's all we're saying. So when it comes to the age gap, you know what? If you believe there's an age gap, it's probably true. If you believe there's not, it's probably true as well. My only caveat here would be just understand that people are at different levels. And I think those levels are not necessarily connected to age. I think it's more about how they look at video. I think that's a that's a bigger barrier. Good point. And just and just be open to um be open to them not jumping on the bandwagon right away because it is intimidating for many people. I mean, I take it for granted because I shoot a video now. If I shoot a video on my phone to you, Preda, that's it's a it's a one-shot. I'm like, oh my one-shot wonder because I do it so often. So if you ask me to speak on on a camera and get a point across in one go without umming and erring, yes, I can. I've also created like 800 or maybe a thousand videos. So anybody can learn things like that. The question is more whether you want to or not.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

You okay? We're leaning towards the next question. In that case, then so we're talking about the other thing that often goes missing within the workplace when we've got all of these wonderful sexy new systems is here you go, Yuri, just deal with it and learn how to use it yourself. There's a missing piece, there's a missing piece in training and upskilling people to use said technology. So, I mean, this is one of the things you really help myself with, and I know you help people across the world with this as well, not just video but beyond. Um, but my question specifically is how can organizations effectively, effectively train their teams to use video or communication tools just to ensure that people are proficient and comfortable with tech. That's the other thing as well, Yuri.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Nice. That is an excellent question. I have a very simple answer to it. Just start doing it and remove the structures that are getting in the way of this. And I'll I'll I'll start with the structures and then I'll talk about just get doing it. The structures is if you want people to start using video, let's say to uh I talked about a video resume. I put together a video resume, a little link to a video. But let's say the only way I can upload my interest in the role is through an SAP system that only allows PDF uploads.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Well, what am I gonna do then? By the way, it's happened before. In that case, I add a PDF image and on the bottom I add a QR code and say, Don't click this QR code, and everybody does. And then it gets to a video of me going, ah, so you clicked on the video. You gotta be creative for these kind of things. Uh so the first thing is structures, make sure that the structures are in place. If you want people to, let's say, use more video on a project. Uh I'll give you an example to like share. Um let's say you're doing some consumer research. You're going out into the field, you go out and speak to their I say people. I don't like to call them consumers, they are humans do. Um and you want to create some videos for that to play back to the team or to share with other consumers. But you need to have a way to send those videos through, right? It's either going to be through a WhatsApp, maybe it's a Teams, but make sure the infrastructure is in place so people can actually do this. Because it's easy to say you want to do something, but if you don't have the infrastructure, nothing's gonna nothing's really gonna change there. So that's my that's my first angle of making sure they have that. And the other one I said is to to just to just go and do it. Yeah, because figure out how video works for you. It might not work the same way for you as it does for me. And I give you an example here. I worked with a technical team, I work with a technical team who brief other tactic uh technical people around a simple process. Okay, the way and the way they so, for instance, they have a new machine that uh puts cookies in boxes, whatever, and then seals it and go for belt. Okay, there are they are there are instructions around how to pack a box or how to turn on that machine or how to operate it. Yeah, sure, you can have manuals. The traditional way is a manual, like a physical. I I still have a manual because we talked about a camcorder. I still have a manual to my Panasonic DV something, which is a 1998 camcorder. It's a manual, and remember it was like in 17 different languages in German, French, Spanish, whatever. So making sure that people know how to use this used to go through a massive manual, which by the way, people like me never read. I my guess is you're the same. So you start playing around with this. However, for these technical briefs, my point was why don't you use videos? And they're great video tools, they're called screencasting, where you can imagine you can show slides. Yeah, if you're watching this on YouTube, it's like this, and you can put your face or not, you could don't have to turn on the camera, but you could talk through slides. So you have your slides on the screen, you make a quick video recording, a tool like Loom, L-O-O-M. It's a free tool. I wish I invented it, it's not mine, put it in the show notes. Play around with things like that. You can show a uh, let's say a like the three-step technical something, how to uh put that box together, how to put the boxes on the palette through a little video, and that's a one-minute video that will show people you because you've gone out, you've done this on your uh on your phone. And if you're not comfortable with video, you can do pictures and talk over pictures, you know. That that's already an improvement, and then that manual turns into a one-minute video, really simple tools. So finding out which tools works for you work for you, and then making sure you've got the infrastructure in place to make sure that they can actually share that. So for people getting up and running and they don't know how to how to do this, use whatever you have and then figure out. You might go, hey, you know, we we want better videos because we send videos to our clients, so we want something that looks a bit better. Great, take a course. You can take there's heaps of courses out there. There's paid, there's lots of free courses out there. You can learn to put subtitles under there or how to cut. Yeah, there's like really basic things that you can learn, but start playing with something because very often the is this the right way? How are we gonna use this? That conversation can stifle it. Yeah, and to my it's all connected by the way, people, to my nobody cares connected to that, so just do it anyway because what's the worst thing that can happen? It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Boom, a hundred percent systems are often uh, or structures, as you called it, are often the downfall of an organization. You're so I'm working with a number number of organizations who have, you know, their systems locked down and firewalls and all of that. I get it, you have to do that, but then externals like us consultants who come in and we've had a brilliant session and we've recorded it, and it's a global team to get past those hurdles. Sometimes I feel like I become IT's best friend to learn their systems to bypass whatever, and that's just something that happened earlier. So absolutely, but the thing here I'm trying to say in a long-winded way is that you can get around it, you just need to talk to the right people and find out it can be done a hundred percent. It can be done.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

And and and like that, and don't force it. I mean, if if if some CEO comes in and says, Oh, you know, I've learned I've I've got an epiphany, listen to Prina's podcast. I'm on to video right now. As of tomorrow, no more emails. We're gonna do everything over video. It makes no sense, you know, makes zero sense. So find find appropriate ways, but maybe one way to get started is to give people the option.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Right, give people the option because some people don't want to do this, you don't want to force it upon them. I wouldn't want to be forced. Well, you have to use this because unfortunately that sometimes happens. But give people the option to communicate in different ways, be open for that. So let's say that you pitch ideas, your internal Christmas party or your Hari Raya or your Diwali or whatever you celebrate, you have an internal, you know, pitching ideas for the Christmas party for the office party. You know, be open for somebody to go, hey, rather than doing you know nine slides, we created a 30-second video. You can't then just go like, no, everybody should stick to PowerPoint. You know, like be open for that. That's you know, and let's see what where that takes them.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

That's cool because the world is not gonna end. Absolutely so. No, no, Yuri, you're very in touch with all things tech beyond me and my brain. Um magic, the magic source. You have the magic source, Yuri. Clearly, that's your business. Do you have any insights? So, looking ahead, what trends do you see in definitely video communication and any other trends in terms of this kind of technological communication that our audience would really benefit from? What's coming up? Any tips that you have as well, Yuri?

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Genius. The word of the last. Few years, artificial intelligence, AI is only going to get bigger. I play around with a couple of tools and I'm not even that deep into them.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

But there are new tools that are that are pretty clever. I'll give you an example. Let's say that you want to do a promo video. I saw one of a car the other day. So let's say you have a new car or new whatever it is, right? A new packaging or a new set of headphones or a new service, even you have something there.

unknown 44:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

And rather than you having video, this AI basically takes your 15 videos. So imagine a car. You take a bunch of different angles from the car, a little close-up of the of the bumper and then the backside and the door opening.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

And then AI just puts that together into a montage with music over it and transitions that is look, it's not what professionals do. I look at that and I kind of, yeah, I can do a better job. But for something that's free and that's available is a game changer. Um AI isn't all there yet. I know it's not really all there yet, but it is a nice, it's a nice direction we're going because it's it's it's evening the is leveling the playing field. And for professionals listening to this saying, well, AI sucks and it's just not the same. I agree. In many cases, it isn't. It's not going to replace our level of skill and creativity, at least not yet. It might later on, I don't know. And then it's up to us to move the goalpost again. But for most people who creating a video was unimaginable. So I'll give you an example. And again, I only started a couple of years ago. Imagine you start a video in the 80s. Imagine the computer you would need. So so now you're still dealing with you're still dealing with film, first of all, and and the equipment that you need to even to even do this. Think about the camera, the film, etc. etc. Now take it to a digital era. Now we're going, now we're going from a film to uh bytes, right? We're going to a we're going to data and digital. But even then, the early days, the programs you needed, it was a lot of stuff was not available. Internet super slow, connections super slow, computers are slow, uh, comparatively to now. I mean, that made it so much harder. Again, this the studios on here, and even the studio I use to edit is Final Cut Pro. It's just an Apple product. And by the way, if you're sitting here listening, you're thinking, what software should I use? They're basically the same. It's like driving a car, whether you drive a Nissan or a Honda or a Mercedes, it doesn't really matter. There are some differences, but just get started somewhere. Whether you're using CapCut on your phone, uh iMovie, uh Adobe Premiere, or uh uh Final Cut Pro. There's a couple of main programs, but even Final Cut Pro, it's it's 500 bucks, like 400 bucks. It's it's it's an investment. Yeah, and the next step will be basically free. Because they're probably stealing your data, but it's basically free. It's basically free, and you can do lots of stuff with this. You can really easily add music underneath. You could take a couple of photos and turn it into a quick montage, which can also be interpreted as a video. You can add your own little face in between explaining things. I think those will be the bigger, the bigger things because it's make it's really changing the game in terms of you don't have to go to agencies anymore. There is a time and a place for that. I guess you know, the million-dollar video if you're a big brand, you know, if you're a big beer brand, a big car brand. I get that. Nothing wrong with this. We're talking in internal communications, yeah. And you want to pitch an idea, why not use a chat GPT-4 that can create images? So I can say it's a three-wheeled car, and the concept is this, and I want it in these colors. Create a couple of AI images, throw that in another bit of AI, which can then turn it into a montage. You add some music, and there you go. Now you got a 20-second montage to of your store, or of that of that new yogurt you want to put in the market, or of people in Japan being very happy with your service that you're delivering there. Why not use that? That's I think will be the uh not the next frontier, it's already happening. I think that's exciting. Uh, I'm not sure about AI, it's a big conversation. Some people love it, some people hate it. I have my own thoughts about them. They're not all like, yeah, it's amazing. However, I do think for me to be credible speaking about it, you have to use it. I I don't take people seriously when they say something doesn't work. My first question would be have you used it? And if they say no, yeah, yeah, play with it first, then and then you find out. Make up your own mind.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Yuri, you haven't talked about it, but this scares me, but it excites me as well in terms of the potential uses of it. Deepfake. Can you do you know much about could you describe what deep fake is and the pros from a workplace perspective? Let's not talk about society because that's a whole different conversation. Deepfake, what is it and how can we utilize it at work for positive gain?

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Okay, not an expert here, but as far as I know what a deepfake is, the best example, or like one of the earlier examples I've seen is there was a talk by Jennifer Lawrence of the Hunger Games. She does a presentation for some award that she got.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

And then on her face, so looks like Jennifer Lawrence in a dress, sounds like Jennifer Lawrence, but her face is Steve Bushimi. If you don't know Steve Bushimi, you just watch the big Lebowski stuff, or uh Nuckie Thompson in Boardwalk Empire. So they they not even superimposed. You you can barely see the difference. It is Jennifer Lawrence talking, Jennifer Lawrence's body, but the face and the facial expressions is Steve Bushimi. And this video, I think, is probably almost 10 years old.

unknown 49:42

Really?

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Okay, that was one of the first ones I saw, and that was kind of early days, and it's probably been going on early. Who knows? Whatever organizations and agencies have been working with this for years before. I but that was a that was come that was complete mind fuck because it was your brain is going, well, wait a minute, this makes no sense. Now add 10 years to that, and now we get to a point where it's getting pretty accurate. So um, there's somebody I follow on Instagram, his videos are hilarious, who puts Arnold Schwarzenegger in everything. So you hear the sound of music, but now it's the sound of music by Arnold. It's a horrible impression, but even his voice is accurate. So it's the sound of music on the hill. Uh and the hills are alive with the sound of music, but then with Arnold, the voice in the face, and it's real, it's ridiculously real. You you can barely see the difference. Now, clearly, you know that Arnold wasn't in the sound of music, but to your point, when does it get scary? What if you take a more realistic example of somebody committing, let's say, a robbery, right? And I have your data from uh let's say that that you know, particularly for the reason it's so big on for celebrities and people we know is because there's a lot of data to pull from there's a lot of videos out there by uh whatever, you know, Angelina Jolie or something. There's a lot of information about her. Yeah, um, you can pull a voice left and right, and based on that data set, an AI can create a voice replication. And by the way, if anybody's listening to this into AI, maybe I'm saying it wrong, but this is this how I understood it. So that's kind of deep fake. Yeah, yeah, let us know. But deep fake is um is is is that level, and that can have very scary implications. However, I have a uh kind of a simplistic point of view on on tech. Like I did a talk on technology years ago, and my point was simply technology is like a knife in the hands of most people, it's fine, in the hands of the wrong people, it's it's a very dangerous tool. And that's the same with any technology. You could say the same with the car. Oh my god, we're letting everybody drive. Or what if somebody wants to use their car as like a massive self-propelled rocket, like a kamikaze? Yeah, it's true. We're all driving. So um, I don't know what's gonna happen with that, but it's get it's getting uh very, very accurate, and who knows what it's gonna look like in 10 years. Now, how can you use this? I'll give you a great example. Yeah, working on the video, big, big internal comms thing, yeah, working on a video. We just did a sample of the video. It's like a corporate, not a corporate video, but like a story of a like a company, what they're doing. I used so I have a script. So the first thing we do is we make sure that we get a sign-off on the script, and once we have the sign-off on the script, only then do we put together the video to avoid that we were creating a video and they go like, Oh, actually, can we just change this person to that person? Uh it's a bigger change than people think. Maybe with AI in the future, it isn't. We can just change address like that. I don't know. At this point, it isn't. So we did a quick sample, and I use a text-to-speech AI, heaps of them, free ones. Google has one. Yeah, so you can have your text read out by somebody. Now, a couple of years ago, they all sounded like Stephen Hawking. They had that very monotonous robotic voice. You could clearly hear it's not a real human, real human voice. It's getting scarily accurate. You can barely hear the difference. There's a couple of words every now and then it says that is not uh accurate. So give you an example. I watched a video yesterday, I didn't even know this. I thought it was somebody actually talking in that American documentary voice. At one point it said enable it. And I went, oh, okay. So it's enabled, but it says enable it. So there's this words out there you kind of go, aha, I got you. But that's honestly, that will be a matter of weeks, I think, before they correct that. Or you can correct it yourself, you can type it in the way you would say it, let's say a company name or somebody's name, and it will correct it. But here comes the kicker. So speech to text, you can do a quick, rough, and ready. And I even told the clients, if you want, we can just use an AI voice, we can save cost from getting a voice actor in. Sure, a voice actor will be better if you're listening there and you're a voice actor and you think, don't talk crap, Yuri, because this is still a I'm sure it's a skill, but it's definitely one of these skills that is under threat for sure. So, you know, either move with it or move around it, kind of thing. So the kicker is really accurate within seconds. So in the text, it reads it out. You can change the pace, male, female, older, younger. You could do accents now. So you can have somebody who is from an Indian English voice or a mainland Chinese, like a more like Mandarin, Northern Chinese English, they sound different from southern Chinese when they speak English. So it's getting there. You could do celebs. I sent it to the client with uh, I think we used David Attenborough in there. But they also they also had Snoop Dogg, they had uh Donald Trump, they had a whole bunch of like iconic voices if you hear them. Like, oh my god, I know exactly who that is, and that is cool, use it to your advantage. Why not? Why not pitch your idea in front of a room? Let's say that you've got this new whatever, you this new solution for a big tech company, and everybody's pitching their ideas on slides and excel sheets. You've got a one-minute video. Hey, my name is Arnold. Let me tell you why this is the best technology, right? Is it attention? Is it a bit, is it a bit cheeky? And is it like, oh my god, I could never do that in meetings? Well, then don't or do it, but why not have a bit of fun with it? Yeah, use it to use it to your advantage. There's uh go play around with this, just just Google some stuff and see where it takes you.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

It's amazing. There's so much potential for so much good future potential. I was thinking deepfake and AI and all of that, especially from a training perspective, and you know, creating a learning culture as well, Yuri. Now, Yuri, I could talk to you forever, but I've got one very important question for you.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

If I am married, oh sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

Not that question, not that question. I know you're married. If I was to hand you a magic wand, Mr. Yuri of the magic source, what is one way that you would change the way of the workplace?

SPEAKER_01 55:52

Start using video now. Everybody, right now, magic wand. If everybody just creates one little video and send a little video to your loved ones to tell them you love them, send a video to your colleague to say, hey, just want to send you a quick video before we sit on that Zoom meeting on Friday afternoon. Uh, create one little video to uh connect with your customers and say we really appreciate you, and we just want to wish you a happy year of the dragon. Create a video to your teams if you're maybe at the helm of one of these organizations to say what the plans are for this year, create a quick video to show what you do because a lot of people don't know what some of the maybe marketing teams do or tech teams do. Do something today, just just a 30-second video. Don't worry what you look like. You're gonna look probably better on video than you do in real life, anyway. So just use that to your advantage. Add a filter if you want. Uh, but just play around with this. What's like what's the worst thing that can happen? People might go, oh, you sounds a bit funny on video. Who cares? Like, nobody cares.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

No one cares. And if you're feeling really uncomfortable, and if you want to share the love, please do tag Yuri, tag myself on your video, and we will celebrate you. Just do it. Yes, Yuri. Thank you, thank you, thank you so so much.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

Thank you for having me. This has been fun because I love talking about video. It's it's uh it's it's my my uh my way of communicating with the world. It used to be music. I played in bands for many years, I was a singer guitarist of Rage Against the Karaoke machine. And uh now I create videos. I think it's a lovely medium. I've really embraced it. I'm learning about it every day. There's no end to the learning, it's a great way to tell stories. And if it is something for you, then uh know that you probably have a little device in your pocket with which you can do this right now. Nothing's stopping you.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

Perfect. Until the next time, Yuri, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Thank you for having me, Prina.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

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