190. Why Being Exhausted Is Not a Badge of Honour - And the Seven Types of Rest We All Need with Prina Shah

This podcast is for people who know that the workplace can and should be better and are ready to do something about it. You will learn practical ways to change organizational cultures and human behaviour without buzzwords, without box ticking, without performative leadership. I am the boss of Prina Shark Consulting, working with executives, leaders and teams to create work cultures and environments that actually work for people. I am Prina Shah. I specialise in organizational culture change and human behaviour change. I am all about making work better with people who give a damn. So if you think I can help, contact me via LinkedIn. I am here to help you to find decent ways to change the workplace. Let's do this. And I truly feel that rest is a part of work. And I'm talking from experience. I have had a funky phase of life at the moment where I was completely depleted of any energy. I fell flat on my face, physically, so to speak, not literally, and I've had some time out. I've actually had some rest, so now is the perfect time to be talking with you. If you haven't listened into episode 189 with the amazing Penelope Bar about rest, work and play, then you really need to because Penelope lives a very different life, and she shared all of the secrets as to how she lives a restful life, which like oh if I could get to that stage one day, I really want to. So, when did we forget how to rest? Is a question I want to ask you. So let me ask you something. When was the last time that you rested without feeling guilty? And I don't mean when you were sick, talking to myself here. I don't mean when you were so exhausted that you physically could not keep going, and I don't mean taking a holiday while secretly checking your emails and worrying about everything waiting for you when you returned. I'm talking to myself here again, I feel. So I mean actually resting without apologizing, without explaining yourself, and without feeling that you should be doing something productive. When was the last time that you did that? Because I think we've developed a very strange relationship with rest. We tell people to look after themselves, we talk about the importance of well-being, we encourage people to find balance, but at the same time, we celebrate being busy. It's a bit weird. We admire people who never stop, and I'm telling you, I have had the type of feedback such as, oh Prina, you're such a gun, you're such a pocket rocket, oh you get so much done. Yeah, great, I do, but I'm not a fucking machine. So yes, we admire people who never stop, and we sometimes treat exhaustion as though it's proof that someone is working hard enough. That's not cool. So think about how often someone asks, How are you? and your response is busy, flat out, absolutely exhausted. I haven't stopped all week. It's almost become a competition. Who has the most meetings? Who has worked the longest hours? Who answered emails over the weekend? Who is surviving on the least sleep? And somewhere along the way, we started confusing being exhausted with being successful. But here's something I want you to think about because I'm really thinking about it as well. What if being constantly exhausted isn't a sign that you're doing enough? What if it's a sign that something needs to change? Welcome to the Ways to Change Your Workplace podcast. Today I am talking about something that sounds simple but can be incredibly difficult to put into practice. Rest. Not as a luxury, not as a reward, not as something we get to enjoy when we've finished everything on our to-do list, but essential as part of working, leading, living, and being a human being. And I want to explore something particularly interesting because, according to the framework developed by physician and author Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith, there are seven different types of rest. Seven. Okay, fascinating. And once we understand them, we might be able to understand why so many people are exhausted even when they think they're doing everything right. So this is what I've been researching about. But first, I want to talk to you about how we got here. So the culture of constant busyness is what I want to talk to you about. I think one of the biggest problems in modern workplaces is that we've made being busy a part of our identity. We don't just do work, we become the work. We define ourselves by our responsibilities, our achievements, our job titles, our ability to manage pressure, our willingness to keep going when things get difficult. Now, don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with working hard. I am a hard worker. There's nothing wrong with being ambitious. I'm ambitious. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to make a difference. That's what I'm about. But there is something wrong when we start believing that the only way to demonstrate commitment to to that cause is to sacrifice our own well being. No. Think about the employee who arrives early every morning and stays late every evening. We call them dedicated. Think about the manager who responds to messages while they're on annual leave. We call them committed. Think about the leader who never seems to take a break. We call them hardworking. But do we ever stop to ask whether these behaviors are sustainable? Do we ever ask what they're costing our person or what message they are sending to everybody else? Because I think we've created a culture where people sometimes feel that they need to prove their value through exhaustion. And that's a very dangerous place to be. I speak from experience. Because the problem with exhaustion is that it doesn't always arrive dramatically. Sometimes it happens slowly. You start a little feeling a little bit more tired than usual. You became you become a little less patient, you find it harder to concentrate. Things that used to feel manageable suddenly feel overwhelming. You stop enjoying the things that you once loved. And eventually you begin to think that this is simply what adult life, leadership, or professional success is supposed to look like. But I don't believe it's supposed to be that way. And I certainly don't believe that we should accept it as normal. So I want to talk about the exhaustion that nobody sees because whoa, we hide it so well. There's a particular kind of tiredness that I want to talk about. The kind that isn't always visible, okay? It's the manager who spends the entire day listening to other people's problems. It's the leader who has to remain calm when everyone else around them is feeling anxious. The employee who is currently constantly interrupted but still expected to complete their work. The business owner who carries the responsibility of making sure that everyone gets paid. The person who is always available, always supportive, always saying yes, and always putting their own needs last. They might look completely fine, they might be smiling in meetings, they might be delivering results, they might be even the person that everyone else turns to when things become difficult. But underneath all of that, they may be absolutely exhausted. And here's the thing not all exhaustion can be solved by going to bed earlier. Sometimes you're tired because your brain never stops, sometimes you're tired because you're constantly managing other people's emotions. Sometimes you're tired because your environment is noisy, demanding, and overstimulating. Sometimes you're tired because you've lost your sense of purpose. And sometimes you're tired because you've spent too much time being there for everyone else that you've forgotten what it feels like to have someone there for you. Which begs me to another question. Okay, what if the reason you're still tired after a good night's sleep is that sleep isn't the only kind of rest that you need? So I want to talk about the seven types of rest. This is what Dr. Smith in her book Sacred Rest describes. Seven types of rest: physical, mental, sensory, creative, emotional, social, and spiritual rest. Now, it is a useful framework for reflecting on forms of fatigue and recovery. It's not a medical diagnostic test, okay? So hold your horses, okay? It doesn't mean that every case of persistent exhaustion has a simple solution. We're all different, we're all quirky. But I do think that it gives us a valuable way to look at something that we often oversimplify. Because when we say someone needs to rest, what do we actually mean? Do they need more sleep? Less noise? Fewer demands, more supportive relationships, or the freedom to be honest about how they're feeling. Let's explore each type. As we go through them, I want you to think about your own life, not what you think you should need, okay? So what you genuinely need right now, rest type one, physical rest. Let's start with physical rest. This is probably the one that we understand the best: sleep, napping, allowing our bodies to recover. But physical rest can also involve gentle movement, stretching, activities that relieve physical tension. Think about how many people spend their working days sitting at desks. Their shoulders are tense, their necks are stiff, their backs are aching, and they've barely moved all day. Yet they continue pushing through because they've got another meeting, another deadline, or another task to finish. We sometimes behave as though our bodies are simply vehicles for transporting our brains from one meeting to the next. But our bodies matter. And physical discomfort doesn't appear simply because we choose to ignore it. So physical rest might mean taking a proper lunch break, going for a short walk, stretching between meetings, getting enough sleep, or allowing yourself to recover when you're unwell. And for leaders, it means recognizing that people are not designed to work continuously without breaks. A workplace that discourages people from taking care of their physical needs is not demonstrating productivity, it is creating unnecessary risk. Okay, so that was physical rest. Now, the second type of rest, mental rest. This is particularly relevant to our working lives, mental rest. Have you ever finished a working day, closed your laptop, and realized that your brain hasn't actually stopped working? I relate. You're making dinner, but you're thinking about tomorrow's meeting. You're sitting with your family, but you are replaying a difficult conversation. You're trying to fall asleep, but your mind is running through everything you still need to do. It's exhausting. And the frustrating thing is that you might not have done everything physically demanding all day, but mentally you've been running a marathon because our brains are constantly processing information, making decisions, solving problems, managing competing priorities, and trying to remember an endless list of responsibilities. Mental rest is about creating opportunities for that constant activity to slow down. It might mean stepping away from your desk for a few minutes. I'm gonna do that after recording this podcast episode. Taking breaks between demanding tasks, writing things down instead of trying to hold everything on your in your head, or creating boundaries when work finishes. And here's something that I think the organizations need to understand. Just because someone has empty space in their calendar, it doesn't mean that they have unlimited mental capacity. Sometimes people need uninterrupted time to think. Sometimes they need fewer meetings, and sometimes they need permission to finish one task before giving on before being given another. Mental rest isn't about switching off our intelligence, it's about giving our minds the opportunity to recover. I want to talk about a third type of rest: sensory rest. Now, sensory rest is really important because I think this is one of the most overlooked forms of rest in the modern workplace. Think about your average working day. Your phone rings, an email arrives, a notification pops up, someone starts talking nearby, another message pops up, your screen is filled with information, the lights are bright, your office is noisy, and you are remained to focus, you are expected to remain focused throughout it all. Then you finish work. And what do you do? You look at your phone, you scroll through social media, you go home and watch TV, you respond to more messages, and before you know it, you spend almost the entire day surrounded by stimulation. Sensory rest is about reducing some of that input. It might mean turning off unnecessary notifications. I actually have my plane to go my phone to go on aeroplane mode after 5 pm because I don't want email notifications, I don't want work phone calls, none of that. Finding a quiet space, spending time outdoors, or simply sitting for a few minutes without anything demanding your attention. It sounds weird, let me read it again. Or simply sitting for a few minutes without anything demanding your attention. And imagine what a difference it could make if workplaces took sensory overload more seriously. Quiet spaces, fewer unnecessary interruptions, greater flexibility, and understanding that different people experience noise lighting and stimulation differently. Because what feels like a lively, energetic workplace to one person might feel completely overwhelming to another person. And creating inclusive workplaces means recognizing all of those differences. The fourth type of rest I want to talk about is creative rest. Now, this is one of my favorite concepts, creative rest. Because when I think about rest, we often imagine doing absolutely nothing. But sometimes rest is about reconnecting with things that make us feel inspired, things that fuel you, things that light you up, nature, art, music, beauty, curiosity, wonder. Have you ever noticed that some of your best ideas arrive when you're not actively trying to solve a problem? Perhaps you're walking outside or listening to music or visiting somewhere beautiful or simply just allowing your mind to wander and suddenly something clicks, an idea appears, a problem seems clearer. You see something from a different perspective. That's one of the reasons that creative rest is so interesting. It reminds us that creativity doesn't always come from trying harder, sometimes it comes from allowing ourselves the space to experience something different. And I think this is particularly important for leaders because we're constantly talking about innovation, creativity, new thinking. We want people to think differently, we want fresh ideas, we want creativity, but then we fill every available moment with meetings, deadlines, and tasks. And we wonder why people struggle to think creatively. If we want people to bring fresh thinking into the workplace, we need to create environments where they have room to think, not just room to produce. The fifth type of rest is emotional rest. Now I think this is where the conversation becomes particularly personal. Because emotional rest is about having the freedom to be honest about how we are feeling, and let's face it, that isn't always easy at work. How often have you asked someone how they are and they've said I'm fine? Even when they're clearly not fine. How often have you said it yourself? I'm fine, I'm good, all under control. Meanwhile, you are overwhelmed, you're frustrated, you're exhausted, and you're wondering how much longer you can keep on going. But you don't want to let anyone down. You don't want to appear incapable, you don't want people to think that you're not coping. So you keep smiling, fake smiling. You keep supporting everyone else, and you keep pretending that everything is okay. This takes energy and it's a lot of frigging energy. Emotional rest means having spaces where you don't have to perform, where you can express how you're genuinely feeling, where you can say no, where you can acknowledge that something is difficult, and where you don't have to apologize for having limits. Now, imagine a workplace where someone could say, I'm feeling overwhelmed, and the response isn't judgment, it's not disappointment, and it's not an immediate lecture or training about resilience. Instead, the response could be okay, let's look at what's happening and what could what we can do to support you. That's the kind of workplace culture I believe we need more of. Because psychological safety isn't just about encouraging people to speak up with ideas, it's also about making it safer for people to speak up honestly about these challenges. So, type six social rest, a biggie. This is another interesting one because when we hear the word rest, we sometimes imagine being alone, and for some people that's exactly what they need. I'm telling you, after workshops, after big speaking gigs, after facilitating very important conversations with executives, after doing consulting projects, sometimes I'm people down and I just don't want any people around me. But social rest isn't necessarily about avoiding people, it's about recognizing the difference between relationships that drain us and relationships that restore us. There's a difference. So think about someone in a leadership position. All day they're making decisions, supporting employees, managing expectations, resolving conflict, listening to concerns, and trying to remain calm and positive. By the end of the day, they may feel completely socially exhausted. And that doesn't mean that they don't care about people, it doesn't mean that they're antisocial. It means that they've spent a significant amount of energy interacting with others. So social rest might involve spending time alone, but it might also mean spending time with people who make you feel comfortable, people you don't have to impress, people who don't expect you to have all of the answers, people who allow you to simply be yourself. And I think there's a workplace lesson here too. We need to stop assuming that constant interaction automatically creates connection. Back-to-back meetings don't necessarily build relationships, forced social activities don't automatically create belonging. And being surrounded by colleagues doesn't mean someone feels supported. Meaningful connection matters more than constant interaction. The seventh type of rest I want to talk about is spiritual rest. Now, for some people this might involve faith, prayer, or religious practice. For others, it may involve meditation, community, service, or connecting with something that gives their life meaning, a bigger thing. At its heart, this type of rest is about purpose, belonging, connection, and feeling that we're a part of something bigger than our daily responsibilities. And I think that has enormous relevance to the workplace because people don't just want to be busy, they want to feel that what they do matters, they want to know that their contribution is valued. They want to feel connected to the people around them. They want to understand why their work is important. And when people lose sense of that purpose, work can become incredibly draining. And when they're performing well, even when they're being paid well, even when everything looks well from the outside, people might not be fine. Because there's a difference between being occupied and being fulfilled. And that's something that I talk to at length in my workshops. And organizations need to really recognize that. Purpose can't simply be written on a poster in the staff room. It has to be experienced, it has to be felt. I have to be moved by it through the way that people are treated, the opportunities that people are given, and the meaning that they find in their work. One of the activities that I love doing with various teams, you know, from executive teams to finance teams to legal teams and everything in between, customer services team, uh team I worked with recently, is to do an activity, and I've got a really good formula to understand what legacy every single person in the room is trying to leave today and in this job. And I'm telling you, that just connects people like you cannot believe. So let me get back to rest. I want to ask you which type of rest you are missing. Okay, so I want to bring all of this together. There's seven types of rest: there's physical, there's mental, there's sensory, creative, emotional, social, and spiritual. And here's what I find particularly powerful about this framework. It reminds us that we can be exhausted in different ways. Okay? You might be sleeping well but mentally overwhelmed. You might be physically rested but emotionally drained. You might have plenty of time alone but feel disconnected from meaningful relationships. You might be taking holidays but feel as though you've lost your sense of purpose. And if we don't recognize what we're missing, we might keep trying to solve the wrong problem. We might assume that we need more sleep when really all we need are fewer interruptions at work. We might book another holiday when all we actually need is a more manageable workload. We might tell ourselves to become more resilient when what we really want is the freedom to be honest. So here's a question that I'd love for you to consider, okay? Which of these seven types of rest are you missing most right now? And what would it take to create more of it in your life? Now, I also want to make something clear. If you're experiencing persistent or unexplained exhaustion, it's really important to not assume that a lack of rest is the only explanation. Medical conditions, sleep disorders, mental health difficulties, and other factors can contribute to fatigue. And not every form of exhaustion can be solved through individual lifestyle changes. Which brings me to a really important part of this conversation. Why rest can't be another employee responsibility? Yes, we do have a part to play in it, I definitely think so, in terms of the agency that we have, or we can manage our own rest. But here's something that genuinely concerns me about the way that we sometimes approach well-being in workplaces. We tell people to take care of themselves, we encourage mindfulness, we offer well-being sessions, we promote resilience, and most of those things absolutely have a value. But what happens when the actual working environment is a problem? What happens when someone is expected to complete an unreasonable amount of work? When they're constantly interrupted, when they're afraid to say no, when they don't feel supported by their manager, or when they feel they have to remain available long after the working day has ended. We can tell that person to practice mindfulness. We can encourage them to go for a walk. We can suggest that they get more sleep. But if we don't address the underlying working conditions, we are missing a significant part of the problem. And sometimes we are effectively asking people to become better at tolerating unhealthy environments. That's not cool. That's not what workplaces be workplace well-being should be about. And that's certainly not how we create meaningful change. Because rest is not just an individual responsibility, it is also an organizational responsibility. Leaders need to look at workloads, expectations, communication practices, staffing, workplace relationships, and the behaviors that are being rewarded. Because you can't build a genuinely healthy workplace simply by telling exhausted people to look after themselves. You have to create conditions that make looking after themselves possible. So, leaders, your team is watching. I really want to speak directly to the leaders listening now. If your leaders are not listening, then please forward this episode to them. This might get a little uncomfortable, but I think it's an important conversation. Leaders, you can tell your team to take breaks, you can encourage them to use their annual leave. You can talk about work-life balance, you can promote well-being initiatives. But if you are constantly sending emails late at night, working through your own lunch break and apologizing every time you take time off, what message are you actually sending? Because people don't just listen to what leaders say, they watch what you're doing, they notice who gets praised, they notice what gets promoted, they notice where the taking leave is genuinely supported, and they notice where the boundaries are respected. So if you say I want everyone to look after themselves, but then consistently reward the people who work the longest hours, you're sending two very different messages. And the message people believe is usually the one that they see demonstrated. Now I understand that leadership can be really, really hard and really demanding. You have responsibilities, deadlines, unexpected problems happen and pressures that don't simply disappear because we decide you know we're gonna prioritize well-being. But leadership is not just about managing outcomes, it's also about creating the conditions in which people can achieve those outcomes sustainably. And that means being willing to change the culture of constant availability, it means recognizing when someone is overloaded, it means respecting time off, and sometimes it means being the person who says, This can wait until tomorrow. Because a healthy workplace shouldn't depend on people continually sacrificing themselves to keep everything functioning. I want to talk about why we feel guilty about rest as well, okay? So I think this is another part of conversation that we need to explore. Guilt. Because sometimes the workplace isn't the only thing preventing us from resting. Sometimes it's our own frigging expectations. We tell ourselves that we should be doing more, that we haven't achieved enough, that we need to finish one more task, that other people are working harder, and that resting somehow means that we're falling behind. And I think this is particularly common among people who genuinely care about what they do. If your job doesn't feel like a job and if you love what you're working on, then sometimes you can tread into unhealthy territory. I speak from experience. These are people who want to make a difference, people who take their responsibilities seriously, people who don't want to let anyone down. But here's the question. At what point did we start believing that our own worth depends on how much we produce? Because you are not just your job title, you are not just your achievements, you are not just the number of emails you answer or the number of hours that you work. You are a person, my friend, with relationships, with interests, with dreams, with responsibilities outside of work, and a life that deserves attention too. And I want you to imagine something. If someone you loved was working the way that you are working right now, would you be worried about them? Would you encourage them to slow down? Would you tell them to take a break? Would you remind them that their health matters? And if you would, why is it so difficult to offer yourself the same kindness? Sometimes we are incredibly compassionate towards other people and incredibly demanding of ourselves. And perhaps that's something we need to change. I want to talk about five practical ways to make rest a part of work. So, what can we actually do? Because awareness is really important, but awareness without action doesn't change anything. So I want to offer you five practical changes that individuals, teams, and leaders can begin making. Up to you. Number one, stop celebrating exhaustion. The next time someone tells you that they've been working all weekend, don't automatically praise them for their dedication. Ask whether they're okay. Ask whether they've got enough support. Ask whether their workload is manageable. Because we need to stop treating overwork as something that we admire. Number two, identify the type of rest that you actually need. Think about the seven types of rest that we've discussed: physical, mental, sensory, creative, emotional, social, and spiritual. Which one feels the most relevant to you right now? And what's one small change that you could make this week? Maybe it's taking a proper lunch break. Maybe it's turning your phone off after work. Maybe it's spending time with people who restore your energy. Or maybe it's finally being honest about the fact that you are overwhelmed. Number three, we need to make boundaries normal, not exceptional, not something that people need to apologize for. Normal. This means respecting people's working hours, avoiding unnecessary out-of-hours communication, allowing people to take their leave without feeling guilty, and recognizing that being available 24-7 is not a reasonable measure of commitment for most jobs. Okay? Number four, look at the systems and not the individual. If several people in your workplace are exhausted, don't automatically assume that they all need better time management. Look internally within the organization. Ask what is happening within the organization. Are workloads realistic? Are priorities clear? Are there enough resources? Do fe people feel safe speaking up? Are meetings consuming time that people could use to complete their work? Because sometimes the most effective well-being intervention is just changing the way the work is organized. Number five, rest before you reach breaking point. This one is really important. You should not have to become completely exhausted before you give yourself permission time and permission to recover. You don't have to be unwell before your well-being becomes a priority. And you should not have to reach a crisis before someone takes your concerns seriously. Rest should be built into your routine, our working practices, and our organizational cultures. Rest should not be treated as emergency treatment when everything else has become unsustainable. The one question that could change your workplace, I want you to imagine something. Imagine someone was watching the way that you work, not listening to what you say about well-being, not reading your workplace policies, but just watching. Watching when you arrive, watching when you leave, whether you take breaks, how you respond to pressure, whether you respect other people's boundaries, and whether you allow yourself to switch off. Now, imagine that person decided to copy everything that you do. Would you be happy with the working life that they've created? Would you want that life for someone that you love? Would you want your children, your nephews, your nieces, your loved ones to believe that's what success looks like? Because I think that's a question worth asking. And perhaps it's a question that more leaders need to ask themselves. We often talk about changing the workplace culture as though it requires enormous initiatives, new strategies, new policies, new programs. And sometimes those things are absolutely necessary. But culture is also shaped by small everyday behaviors. The manager who encourages someone to take a proper break. The colleague who respects another person's time off. The leader who admits that they need to slow down. The organization that listens when employees say that their workloads are unsustainable. And the person who finally decides that being constantly exhausted is no longer something that they want to accept as normal. Those decisions matter because culture isn't just what we say, what we believe, it's what we repeatedly do. So, your challenge. Here is my challenge to you. This week, I want you to think about the seven types of rest. I want you to identify the one that you are missing out on the most. Not the one that sounds the easiest, not the one that you think you should choose, the one that you genuinely need. Then ask yourself one question: What do you need to change for me to experience more of that kind of rest? Okay, and if you're a leader, I want you to take that question one step further. What do you need to change in your workplace for your people to experience more of the rest that they need? Because it's one thing telling people to look after themselves, it's another thing to create a workplace where they actually can look after themselves, and that's the difference between talking about well-being and making well-being a part of the way that we work. So before we finish, I want you to speak to the person listening who is tired. And perhaps you've been tired for a long time. Perhaps you're the person that everyone depends upon. Perhaps who always says yes, the person who always solves the problems, the person who keeps everything moving, the person who rarely asks for anything in return. And perhaps you've become so used to being exhausted that you've started believing it's simply a part of who you are. But I want you to hear something. You do not have to earn your rest by exhausting yourself first. You don't have to reach the end of your patience, your energy, your well-being for you to give yourself permission to stop. You can be ambitious and still need a break. You can be dedicated and still have boundaries. You can be a brilliant leader and still need time to recover. You can love your work and still need time away from it. I am talking to myself here, I'm talking to you. Please pass this episode on to anyone who needs to listen to it. And you can be a valuable person even when you are not producing anything at all. Because your worst does not disappear when you close your laptop. Your contribution does not vanish when you take annual leave, and your commitment should never be measured by how much of yourself you are prepared to sacrifice. So, the next time you feel guilty about resting, I want you to remember something. Rest is not laziness, rest is not failure, rest is not a lack of ambition, and rest is not a reward for people who have finished everything. Rest is a fundamental part of being human. And if we genuinely want healthier workplaces, better leaders, more sustainable careers, and lives that feel meaningful behind beyond our job titles, we need to stop treating rest as optional. We need to pay make it a part of the way that we work, how we lead, how we live. Because ultimately, the goal shouldn't be how much exhaustion we can tolerate. The goal should be to create lives and workplaces that don't require us to be exhausted all the time. And that brings me back to the message that I want you to remember from today's episode. Rest is not what you do when all the work is finished. Rest is a part of how the work gets done. Thank you for joining me on the Ways to Change Your Workplace podcast. If this episode made you think of someone who's been carrying too much for too long, please share it with them. Not because they need another thing to do, but because they might need reminding that they're allowed to stop. And I'd love to hear from you. Which of the seven types of rest do you need the most right now? And what would need to change in your workplace to make that possible? Until the next time, remember that changing the workplace starts with challenging what we've come to accept as normal, and sometimes one of the most powerful changes that we can make is giving ourselves and each other permission to rest. Because rest is not the opposite of work, rest is a part of work. Over and out, and I will see you in the next episode. All details about this episode are in the show notes. If you like this episode, I'd like you to take a moment and think about at least two people who might enjoy it. And please share the episode details with them too. Also, don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and on Instagram. I am fina. See you there too.