63. How Embracing Your Cultural Identity Creates [Career] Opportunities with Valentina Lwin Bailey and Prina Shah

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello and welcome to this episode of Ways to Change Your Workplace with Myself, Prina Shah. This episode is a really good one. Get comfy and let's do it. Hello and welcome to this episode of Ways to Change Your Workplace with Myself, Prina Shah. And I'm really excited to be introducing to you today Valentina Lewin Bailey. Now, Valentina, I'm going to do a bit of an intro to you, if I may. Sure, thank you. Valentina has been introduced to me by a mutual friend of ours, in fact, the lovely Veronique. Hello, V. If you're tuning into the other V. Yeah, the other V. And we have been introduced because of the fact that we have a shared passion in helping workplaces to improve the way that they work. And Valentina is living in Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia at the moment. And the kind of work that Valentina does, she supports the Asia-Pacific region of the world as a workplace culture coach, hence the similarities. And today, Valentina, I want to speak to you about something that's really close to my heart. And we've been talking about this offline. And I thought, let's do a podcast about it. I want to talk to you about your story of how embracing your cultural identity can create career opportunities. And you've got a direct story about this. So we're going to get to it. But first off, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Thank you. Great to be here. And thank you for giving me the time and the airspace to talk about workplace culture and linking it to my story and what it all means, particularly from the cultural perspective, my lived experience and background.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

It's amazing. Valentina, so first off, can you just tell us a little bit about your story, what you do, how you got to where you are, and why you do it, please?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah, for sure. Thank you. So I am, as Prina has said, a workplace culture coach. I currently work for a group called Great Place to Work, which is a global company that looks into research and also shaping, helping the organizations improve on their workplace culture. So part of that role really is to undertake a trust index survey with the employees and to actually identify the different components that make up a workplace culture and where things are really strong and where there might be opportunities for improvement. So I've been doing that for a little while, and in fact, I was actually the client on the other side for a few years prior to joining this team. So understanding what it's like actually on the ground for the employers and leadership team in terms of shaping the workplace culture and also now looking at it from the other side in terms of understanding what many great organizations do and being able to share some of those trends and research data. So how I ended up here is that my background is actually in organizational development. So human resources, but particularly focusing on organizational development, looking at things from a more macro and strategic perspective that consisted of, you know, change management, leadership development, and all of those different components that actually ultimately make up the workplace culture.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Beautiful. And I love the way that your career, you know, historically, you were starting off in a different area and you've got to where you are now as a result of all of the wonderful opportunities that have come your way because of your hard work. And that's what I really want to understand. So, given that the topic is how embracing your cultural identity can create career opportunities, Valentina, I want to ask you one question first off before we get into your story. Embracing our heritage is a really important aspect for all of us in life, but it's still a difficult aspect for many people who are culturally and linguistically different to truly be themselves, especially in the workplace context. What do you think the barriers are and why do you think this is, Valentina?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

As you said, there's so many different elements and aspects of this, right? So I am absolutely talking from the culturally and linguistically diverse group background. And why is it difficult? Well, I think many reasons, but one of the key things is that people of Cald background perhaps don't necessarily realize that there is so much richness that we can actually offer. And a lot of the times I think we just go with the norm in like, you know, it'll be all right or should be right or it is what it is. And yet there is so much uh richness and diversity and experiences that we can actually offer. So I think it's actually being a little bit passive about who we are and on a daily basis. I think a lot of people say, Well, I am who I am. I don't need to actually sort of say where I come from or what my background is. But the reality is that when you actually share that, it actually opens up so many windows for different people. It raises awareness and also just bringing that different perspective that many people may not be aware of. Now, having said that, for you and perhaps for me as well, and many others who are sort of in the space where we talk about it quite openly, we don't realize how closed other areas can be, you know. Um, and so I think we're in sort of amongst the preaching to the converted, I guess. So the message really is for those who are perhaps not necessarily realizing that they actually have a lot of power to be able to shape the workplace culture and open the minds and the hearts of different people.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

But why do you think people don't share? I mean, do you have thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 5:43

I think there are probably a number of different things, like I said before. So the first thing is that you don't realize the actual impact that you might make and the difference that you might make. The other thing is that, you know, for many people, maybe they don't feel comfortable to be able to connect to their background or openly share, maybe because of their, I guess, negative experiences or even passive experiences that they've had before, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:06

And a lot of the times, I guess, people don't really see the need to, and yet I feel that we need to, especially more so now in the the world is evolving and diversity is finally being embraced a little bit more, a little bit more so. Thinking about this, you know, in terms of what holds people back, and we reflect on ourselves when we ask these big questions, and have to be honest and say that I finally started to share my story now that I'm in my 40s. But Valentina, my gosh, so I've got a similar career background to you, you know, like successful in corporate jobs and doing wonderful, wonderful things, but always trying to fit in and not rock the boat and not share elements of my cultural background because I thought, oh no, I'll be too different or I'll be judged for this or that. Um, but it's only now that I've started to open up, and it's been really interesting. So, as a multiple migrant Valentina, I was born in Kenya and then brought up in the UK. So that itself being in a third world country and going to a first world country at the age of eight, that was just something else, and learning how to fit in there and just learning a new culture there as well. That was something else. And then um within the Indian community, it's been really interesting as well. So we have intersectionality within every aspect. So brown ages, brown, you know, there's just so many different elements to all of us. And um, sharing my story, Valentina, I remember so when I was in the UK, the Indian community, so my community, the Gujati community, used to think, uh, you're a freshie, you're from Kenya, you don't really fit in here. I was like, all right, I did fit in eventually, and then I met a guy, fell in love, moved to Australia. And that was my second my migrant experience or migration experience. And here we have a lot of Indians uh from my community, from the Kenyan community. But then when I moved here, Valentina, uh, there was a case of, oh, but you're a British Indian, you don't fit in with us. I was like, oh my God, you know, so within our own cultures, it's often difficult to fit in, let alone trying to fit into a workplace culture or a predominantly Caucasian white culture. So I was just thinking about this question that I've posed to you and then my story about it. I think that's why I've held myself back. So for people who are listening, I guess ask yourself if you are holding yourself back, why is it? Because as you say, Valentina, we all have a story to share. And my gosh, those stories are really interesting. Really interesting. And I know you've been through quite the journey yourself, Valentina. So I want to hear about your journey, about how you came to embrace all things, Valentina Louen Bailey.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Wonderful, yes. Thanks, Prina. And it is absolutely true for a lot of people, it is about that fear factor and fitting in, right? So as human beings, we all just want to connect and be part of a bigger group, a bigger community. So a lot of the times it is, in fact, about not fitting in. However, a little bit different to your experience, fitting in part wasn't a biggest factor for me in terms of why I didn't speak out or why I didn't, you know, express myself or use my cultural background as a launch pad for many different things. In my case, it's kind of the other way around where I felt so fitted in that maybe I was I had my blinkers on, or maybe I was living in my own little bubble, and I didn't really find the need to express or, you know, I kind of went, well, you know, I'm one of the people in Perth, which is where I'm from, uh part of the migrant community. And so that's probably where I didn't actually realize the need to actually speak about the race and you know the experiences and the differences and and what that actually brings. So um I love the fact that you were just talking about, you know, being a brown girl. And I am going to use that, and I know that's this might offend others, but I'm referring to myself and I absolutely identify as a brown girl and proud of it. So yeah, we'll sort of talk about race and culture a little bit as well. So um, you know, it's from my perspective, and it's not to, you know, I apologize in advance if it doesn't jive well with um uh some, but uh it is what it is for me. So for me, um it's actually like I said, it's different because when I came to Australia at the age of 12 in the late 80s, my family had already been some members of the family had already settled in Australia, and we also had, I guess, because of that, I guess, preconceived ideas of what life in Australia would be like. And so we were, in fact, looking forward to it. And my family at the time lived in a place where there were lots of diverse cultures. You know, I had amongst my immediate friends, you know, we had people from India, obviously from Burma, which is where I'm from, South Africa, Italians, Chilean, Salvadorian. So it was just a real mixed pot of wonderful people. And so for me, growing up in that sort of environment for the first, I'd say, primary school years, um, we were just a nice blend of multicultural mix. And so I didn't really sort of feel discriminated or marginalized in too many ways. There were probably a handful of times where I actually felt overt racism, and even to this day, I'm not really quite sure if it was, in fact, racism or whether it was just my misunderstanding of what was being said. Later in life, I learned to understand the difference between overt and covert racism, and then the covert part, the casual racism, started to become more obvious to me. And again, it's not such a negative impact, but I was more aware of it. So, coming back to your point about not necessarily expressing it until you get to your 40s, I too probably only started really using that as an opportunity to talk about it and increase awareness in my late 30s and early 40s, and that's really through the nature of work that I did and the also the work environment. So in Australia, I've predominantly worked in education, higher education technical colleges. So this is where informing and educating was really encouraged. And so I've been really fortunate to be in environments where cultural diversity is actually embraced and supported. So that's where my experience was and why I now sort of talk about it a little bit more openly. Having said that, in 2017 I left Australia to go back to my birth country, Burma, to work. And through that experience and the last five years, I've now experienced living in different countries, and that now brings in a different cultural element and perspective as well. And so now I find myself really expressing when people say, Where are you from or who are you? I am from Australia, but I'm Burmese Australian first. Burmese first and then Australian. And I always talk about the two together because I've lived in both places and I identify as both, but they are one, right? So Burmese Australian um is really quite important for me. So that's a little bit same, same but different.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

What do I call myself? I am a Kenyan, British, Indian who is also now an Australian. Hey, lucky ours, lucky hours, Valentina. Yes, that's right. Nothing but yeah, for sure. Valentina, so when we were talking last time, you know, just a casual conversation. You talked to me about uh something that your sister did when she had kids, which got you thinking about what you needed to change. Could you talk to that? I know, very cryptic here.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Yeah, yeah. That's a wonderful story about myself and my background and something that uh still gives me goosebumps to talk about. And so thanks for giving me another opportunity to share this. So, as I said, I am Burmese. I was born in Burma and lived the first 12 years in Burma, and towards the end of late 80s, that's 86, my family migrated to Australia. And so it so happens, and part of this whole education and awareness raising and talking about culture is that there are stereotypes or assumptions. So when I say I'm from Burma, immediate thing is like, why is your name Valentina? And what's your real name? Yeah, and why are you not of a slightly different look or colour? So, what people tend to think of Asia and in particular Burma is perhaps a slightly lighter person and somebody with a very sort of uh ethnic Burmese name. And so, yes, the reason why I have Valentina, it is on my birth certificate, is because we're Christians and so naturally we have a Christian name. Traditionally, Burmese people don't tend to have a family name or a surname, but my parents were quite ahead of their time or on trend or whatever it was, and so we have always had in our name the last name. Louin is actually my dad's last piece of the last name. And so, right from birth, Louine has always been part of that. But of course, through marriage, a former marriage, I became Valentina Bailey. And I had used Valentina Bailey for a very long time in Australia and um, you know, work and studies in Korea and everything. So I'm known as Valentina Bailey. And around about mid-2000s, so like 200, I don't know, 14 or something like uh maybe anyway, around about then, in my late 30s, let's call it that, I became aware of a program called Courageous Conversations About Race. And that was through the universities, and we had actually brought that program at UWA and then subsequently to uh Edith Cowan University, which is where I was working at the time. And that piece of work required for us to sort of map through your cultural journey and in particular your race. So there was an activity that you needed to do called um racial biography, developing your own racial biography. Who are you, where do you come from, and what is your race? And so doing that, I realized, recognized that if I was to say to anyone that I am Valentina, it doesn't actually express, well, in fact, even with my last name, it doesn't actually express my cultural heritage. So that is the one piece of information. And coming back to that point uh earlier about, you know, covert and casual racism, is that I used to work in a HR consulting firm back in the early 2000s as well. So whenever I used to sort of make a call and say, Yeah, you know, I'm Valentina Bailey, I'm coming out to see you, and then I get to the reception counter or whatever and be like, oh yeah, I'm Valentina and Bailey, and they kind of go, and I sound like this. So then they kind of go, Oh, right, okay, great. And so they were clearly expecting, I don't know, an Italian person or an Anglo-Saxon person or whatever it was. So then that was again another piece that kind of went starting to connect the dots a little bit later on when I started doing this racial biography. It was like, okay, well, the whole name in the initial introduction doesn't say anything about my Burmese heritage. And so I started thinking about how do I then incorporate Louin back into my name and my identity. So I spoke to my sister about this, and by this stage, she had already been married and had gotten her sort of married name as well. And I think she may have had her first child by this stage. And so she said, Oh, yeah, yeah, but I've been using Louin in my name for many years now, and I think she did it at the time of marriage. So then I was like, I kind of feel like I'm behind the ball now, you know. But that's not the real reason, of course. But you know, coming back to what I said earlier, it's like I want to be able to share and express in my identity through name that I am of Burmese heritage and not necessarily losing, you know, other elements that make up my identity as well. So I started incorporating Valentina Lewin Bailey. So because of the logistics and so on, whatever, it's just easier. So then I've now used Valentina Lewyn as my first names and Bailey still as my last name. And how I ended up with the career uh opportunities and the link to that is that part of that process of changing or incorporating my Burmese name back into it, I changed it on LinkedIn. So there were two things that I did on LinkedIn, and that was obviously to add Valentina Lewin in the first names and keeping the last name as it was. And I also added that in terms of languages, I speak English and Burmese. And lo and behold, a headhunter from Asia at the time was looking to bring back Burmese people as repats or expats to help shape and you know, uh help uh capacity building in Burma because the country had now opened up and it was actually sort of growing a great deal and looking at bringing in different talent. And the key thing that they needed was those that actually understood Burmese culture, as well as having had that external international overseas experience. So I was one of many who were the typical mould to fit into that. And so that's where I actually had the opportunities to experience living and working back in Burma, which had been my desire for many, many years prior to that. But I just didn't really know how, and I kind of didn't really do too many sort of active searches around that. And that was my own limiting beliefs of a different kind around competencies and what would I contribute. And you know, I'm not a teacher or a doctor or a community development or, you know, that sort of social justice or whatever. So, anyway, so the point is that incorporating my Burmese heritage and actually sharing that more publicly meant that this opportunity came up for me to be able to go back to Burma, work in the field that I love, that actually also contributed to the workplace and also in terms of the country's development.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

And giving back. Oh my gosh, what a dream. Not a story. This is the story, talking about how embracing your cultural identity can create career opportunities. So the more we are ourselves in the long run, the more ideally things fall into place. And you know, the older we get, the more we see that as well. Life experience really helps, doesn't it, Valentina? So you talked about the catalyst, especially for you, in mapping your cultural journey and mapping your racial biography. And how interesting is that? I went through a thing just before turning 40, and I did one of those ancestry tests. And my best friend, who now lives in France, he's also Indian, says to me, Girl, you're brown. Ain't nothing else gonna come out of that result. But did the test, and it's so interesting because you get to find out elements of regions that you're from, which is really, really interesting. And the more we understand ourselves, the more the we can be ourselves as well, I feel, Valentina. Could you expand a little bit more on how you did map your cultural journey or your racial biography? So for people who are new to this, what is all of that, Valentina?

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Yeah, it's just a sort of a more of an organic process for me. And it wasn't so much about DNA tests or you know, ancestry tests or anything like that. In fact, I haven't done that, and I really should, because I know for sure that we have lots of different hybrids of things, a mix of things. So, yeah, so it was just really tracing back and identifying where you were born, where you were made, what does it actually mean for you, what are the sort of the different experiences that you've had, and how that has actually shaped who you have uh become today. So it's it's more of a reflective process and understanding the experiences. So, for example, coming back to my early childhood years in Burma, a lot of people may think that Burma is an Asian country and it's that and it's sort of a homogenous group, but that's actually not true at all. I think it also comes back to connect to that experience. I was talking about where having lots of different people around me is such a norm. So, in the first 12 years, like I said, in Burma, whilst I am a typical Burmese Burma, you know, Burma is actually made up of lots of different ethnicities as well. And so we have the Chinese Burmese, Indian Burmese, and all the different variations, and also lots and lots of different ethnic Burmese people as well. And so, as such, most of the time, if you sort of lined up 10 different Burmese people, it will actually look quite different. And it's a bit like, you know, the different regions and the mixes that you were talking about from India as well. So growing up, for me to have experienced, you know, a Chinese New Year and Eid and Christmas and all of those things was just part of daily life. My best friend at school was from Chinese Burmese background, and I had Burmese Burmese and also some Indian communities as well. So that mix was something that I actually grew up with, but really kind of looking into that a little bit more was part of that uh that um racial biography, as I say, and you know what that actually means. And so I have to say, blessed, that it's been very, very positive. However, I also know for me personally, that's been positive. I also know of family members and close friends who have actually had a quite a different experience. So I do take that into account as well when I'm talking about this, that not everyone's actually had such a positive experience. So I know for sure in my home country being Burmese and being Buddhist is preferred. And in workplace and particularly in sort of government environments, to be able to um progress into senior positions if you are of various different ethnicities or religions, that it's not perhaps as favorable. So I'm very aware of that. So stepping through some of those things, that's sort of the racial biography with the journey that I took into that reflective mode.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Brilliant. I'm gonna do it. And anyone listening in, anyone tuning in, map your cultural journey, map your racial biography. Mind map is as easy as that. I'm gonna do it and I'll report back to you, Valentina.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah, please do, because it's really interesting just to see, you know, and when you actually sit down and think about it, some of the things that you've forgotten about, or some of the things that you were a bit passive about start to come to light.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah, and your story just shows of you know what has resurfaced and what you've done about it as a result as well. So the next thing is to take action as well, clearly from you. Valentina, I love talking with you. I have one final big, big question for you. Valentina, Louyn Bailey. If I was to give you a magic wand, what is one way that you would change off the workplace?

SPEAKER_01 24:43

That's a tough question. Do I only have one magic wand? Or would the one magic wand be to ask for many more magic wands? So yeah, I mean, that's a really a tough one, Prina, because I don't know that it's just one thing that, you know, and I'm I'm not sure whether you're talking about sort of the workplace culture in general or whether it's uh, you know, specifically around cultural diversity and embracing different people. So there's probably a couple of things. So if I can be cheeky and ask, you know, for a couple of different magic ones that perhaps make up the whole thing. And it comes from different perspectives. So as employees, and particularly those with diverse backgrounds, everybody has a story, everybody has a cultural background and all of those things. So it's not just to say that you need to fit into a mold and to really embrace who you are and openly share that because what you don't think that is important for you might actually spark an inspiration in somebody else. And so don't underplay and don't underestimate the contribution that you can actually make just from your lived experience. And it doesn't have to be culture, it could be living in different places, living with different disability, living with different challenges of any kind. And it could be as an extension as well. So it doesn't necessarily be you having that experience, but sorry, you being sort of in that, I guess the diversity mode, but just experiencing that from family or friends or whatever. So I think that would be one thing. And from organizations' perspective, I suppose from leaders' perspective, to really listen and to really hear what different people actually have to say. And in this day, particularly in Australia, we've come a long, long way embracing all of these different aspects and diversity. But getting people really involved in some of the decision making would be the key, I think. Because a lot of the times we have great intentions, but we think we know what we have to do, but unless we actually ask and hear and listen, it might be something different. So maybe it is actually just not necessarily sort of running away with the things that we think we should do, but really calling on the individuals to actually contribute to some of those key decisions around diversity and inclusion practices. And not necessarily addressing your question, but something that I always sort of come back to. I heard, and I don't even know who made this up and where it came from, and it's been shared many times, I'm sure. But you know, that whole thing about diversity and inclusion. So diversity is actually inviting you to a party, but inclusion is allowing you to play the music and you're actually enjoying the music together.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Valentina, let's end on that one.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Wow. I don't know who made it up, but I I heard that and I thought I can really resonate with that because a lot of the times we tend to do celebrations of festival, dance, music, clothes, culture, sort of the exterior stuff. And then he's like, oh yeah, you know, you've got a dish from Asia or a dish from India or Africa or whatever, and that's it. But that's not really it. That's not enough. That is a starting point, but that's not really it, you know, allowing you to actually play your music and you dancing to that music as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Go deeper. Yes, and people can be themselves now. Thank you so much, Valentina. I really appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Thank you so much. I hope that is helpful. And uh go forth, express yourself, be yourself, and bring your whole self to work and allow everybody to bring their whole selves to work as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

And I'll put your details in the show notes for anyone who has questions for you, Valentina. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

For sure. Thank you so much. And thanks again for giving me the opportunity to share my story. Always a pleasure. Who doesn't like talking about themselves?

SPEAKER_00 28:22

If you want to meet great thinkers who stand against crappy workplace cultures, lousy leaders, and toxic teams, then you need to join the Ways to Change Your Workplace Facebook group, which is linked in today's show notes. I will see you in the next episode. Bye for now.