99. Legacy Series with CEO Anthony Vuleta and Prina Shah

SPEAKER_01 1:11

of the town of Victoria Park, which is a really cool uh town in uh just the outskirts of Perth. Now I've been working with Anthony and his team and the town of Vic Park for years. Since I started my business in fact, and I've seen the evolution of the organization and I am very lucky to have wonderful connections with wonderful people such as Anthony and his wider team and lots of people in the organization. The kind of work I've been doing for the team at the town of Wickard, I've been such as team optimization sessions for teams who need a fresh jump start. Leadership development sessions, leadership coaching sessions, I've coached the executive team, Anthony and his team themselves to get past certain hurdles. We all have hurdles it's realistic that we get help to overcome such hurdles. I have had the opportunity to deliver many a team health session for various teams across the town of Victoria Park. I've been very privileged to be able to coach an elected member of the town of Victoria Park as well. And one of the things that I recently finished is a huge mentoring program for the Inner City Council, which I facilitated and the town of Victoria Park was one of the towns the city of Tubiaco, the town of Winston and the City of South Perth were also involved. And the intention of that last program that I mentioned was to break silos across various councils. How cool is that if you think that's great, you're gonna love everything that Anthony has to share with you. He has a really interesting perspective so let's get into it. Hello and welcome to this legacy series of the Way to change your workplace podcast with myself, Prina Shah, and I'm very excited to be introduced or reintroducing you today to Anthony Vuletta. Anthony's already been in the podcast once before um and I'll link to that in the show notes. But Anthony, welcome back. How are you today?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Great. Happy to be back so I appreciate the invite again. You can't get enough of a good thing, hey Brennan.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Exactly and I love chatting with you. Anthony, so as you know as I briefed you anyway, this uh this series of the Ways to change a workplace podcast is on people who leave a legacy within the workplace. And you know you don't have to be at the helm of your career you could be at any stage in your career as you know and as I've learned loads from you from the work that I've been doing with you. So without further ado I'd like to introduce Anthony to you. Anthony Vuletta is the CEO of the town of Victoria Park, which is a huge vibrant town in uh just on the outskirts of Perth City, really close, um really diverse really vibrant. It's got its own feel it's got its own flavor so to speak has its own vibe. It's a really beautiful town. And in terms of Anthony himself, Anthony if I may um I know lots about you've been working together for a while now for a good few years. And one of the things I've heard about Anthony Anthony I'm gonna let this slip you know there's always rumors about oh my gosh is Anthony going to leave the town? Where is he going to go to so there's always rumors like this and from that perspective I've heard from your own people thinking I don't want him to leave but then from other perspectives of people from other organizations they're thinking I hope we get him so there's something about Anthony here. And I remember Anthony when I first met you I was in your office and you took great pride in your organizational culture. And I know you and your team have done some amazing work and you won lots and lots of uh awards in relation to optimising your organizational culture and that's one of the things you're passionate about. I know you're passionate about lots of things. At a high level Anthony over to you what do you do and why do you do it?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Look I never actually expected to to be in a CEO role and I suppose um you know having a civil engineering background and designing roads and drains is a long way from managing an organisation of lots of wonderful people. So for me I sort of fell into it I've been at the town of Ick Park for 22 years in the last week. So it's a very long time three different roles but ultimately nine years now in the CEO role. And why do I do what I do? Well um I actually like people and like working with them. I like to be able to I suppose test how good they can be I like to try to see how far I can help them grow and and and reach their potential. And I suppose one one last thing sort of um uh sort of view I have is that I want to make sure I make a difference for the community at large as opposed to just the town of Victoria Park. So I think they're the things that actually drive me and have done since since I first got into the the CEO role.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Okay Anthony amazing so with that in mind you want to make a difference to the community at large now I know for a fact that you have many bosses many many bosses let's just say so we've got the mayor that you report to there's all of the counselors as well you know that you are reporting to um you've got your executive team you have the people of the town of Victoria Park you know your community you've got your stakeholders and very importantly you've got your people all of your staff you know that I know you serve as well how do you manage?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

And in this one group that was my wife and family so uh yeah and and my wife's name is Karen too as is my mayor. So I've got two Karen's that are my boss at the moment. Wow um and uh look how do I manage uh it's I suppose it's a bit of an art. I think being a CEO is more of an art than an actual an actual discipline. So it's about being able to juggle um priorities it's about being able to uh delegate when you need to and support people when they need it. And I think uh for me you know the only way um I can do this is by building capability with others in the organisation and just helping to guide them and help them um deliver outcomes and I think that's probably the key to it. Rather than trying to do everything yourself which you'll you'll pretty much burn yourself out pretty quickly you've got to rely on others and in doing so you have to trust that they'll actually do the best for this organisation and community and and I believe they do.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Now talking about that you have just been on an epic six week holiday all around Australia and you're looking very refreshed hold on to that holiday high but while you were away Anthony you did something very different with two people in your job could you please explain what you did and why you did that well uh well actually we had uh I was away for six weeks and we had three different um acting roles through that period.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Uh the first though was a co-CEO uh sharing role so I had um uh one of the executive and a manager that reports directly to me act in that role and um why we do this is uh it's a traditional sort of sort of issue within local governments that career development is a major major problem. So elevating in a hierarchical sort of sense through an organisation you can you you'll hit the limiter at some point in time and then your choices are do I want to stay here do I want to do I want to move how am I going to get this extra bit of experience that I need so um that particular manager basically through our performance review process indicated they want to act in some form of executive role and uh so when I when I leave we were able to organize an acting partially in my CEO role to give them a bit of a taste of uh what to expect. I'm not too sure whether it was a good thing or a bad thing um however they definitely learnt a lot and I think you know it gives them a view into what the role is all about. So it isn't just having coffee and building relationships with people. There's a fair bit of uh other negotiation uh with all those different bosses that I've got um and uh with the community as well so I think uh I think they got a bit out of it.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Oh no doubt and what a beautiful uh way to do it so a co-CEO sharing acting opportunity where you had one of the executives and a senior leader who wants to rise up the ranks as well so there was the security blanket of uh a senior executive so to speak who was helping that senior leader as well it can be done and you've just shown that it can it it can be and I think um you know you learn from these uh processes as well so it's pretty much you have to dip your tongue in the water to actually understand what the uh actual outcomes are going to be of an acting shared shared acting role.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

So did it work 100% perfectly no it didn't. What did we learn from it? There's quite a few things I think we would embed that in the process next time if uh someone was going to be acting as a C as the co-CEO um and hopefully you refine how we do it moving forward but it the the one thing is we we created an opportunity wasn't there before and that person got some experience which they wouldn't have got before so it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Beautiful it's all about opening doors learning from things things go right things go wrong and when things go wrong we learn from them we pivot and we continue on. Anthony in your own words then so I have many words about you but in your own words how would you define the legacy that you are leaving in the corporate world at this stage um look I I suppose my legacy is uh not only the things we build and deliver in terms of services to this to the community it's it's really about um building a an organization that has a good culture the they have they trust you and I trust them they are open to a conversation as am I and they are all helping deliver outcomes for this community in alignment and I think um we've got a pretty good organisation we've only just done our staff satisfaction survey just recently and uh we hit about hit 90% satisfaction and you know through a lot of turnover in the last couple of years and all the changes around the world with COVID and things like that we're in a pretty good place and I feel like there's an energy within the organisation now to keep progressing and that that whole uh legacy about leaving a good sound organization to whoever might come into this role into the future is really what it's all about for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

And um hopefully um yeah there's nothing we're not perfect by any stretch of the imagination there's always work to do however um it's it's a pretty sound and good um organisation to be in that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Absolutely so um so you you you mentioned there about listening to your people and I have seen it in action can I how how do you listen to your people do you have examples of what you do and how you do it Anthony if you could kindly share.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah yeah sure um so lots of different ways um I do a CEO open door conversation uh once a week um and I may get no one to come in uh and have a chat to me or I might get half a dozen people. Generally they'll come in and just engage about whatever the issues are whether it's an approval for something or whether they want to talk about family related issues they'll come in and have a chat. The other thing I do is once a month I get random people across the organisation to have coffee with us and I go and have coffee and cake with them somewhere in the town and we just shoot the breeze and have a conversation. If they want to raise something with me they do if they don't so be it. But for me it's um having that engagement at that level allows me to understand whether there's any issues, problems or concerns. It gives you a good pulse of what's actually happening in the business. And probably the the one major one that we've introduced um actually during COVID you used to have once a month staff meetings um but uh you know we um two or three people talking at staff meetings in pretty much silence um throughout the whole meeting uh but through COVID we started engaging weekly in teams meetings meetings and we we basically started uh to engage across in the digital sphere and we had much more participation in conversation in those staff meetings. We used to poll staff also about how they're feeling uh why they're feeling that way through COVID and then beyond that we we we polled them on various things what's concerning you at the moment what's creating your problems for the way you're doing your work what are the blockages that we can blockages that we can actually help you with or we might be able to give you advice about getting through that particular blockage. And that information and data that we get from those meetings then goes back to our executive ground management teams to actually do something with so we not only ask them what the issues are we help solve them and actually come back to them and say well this is what we've done or this is how you can play a part in resolving that issue. And that's led to our engagement scores being in the 80 odd percentile mark with our organisation now so quite high engagement for the organisation considering that half of our staff which is about 400 odd staff are actually casual. So they they might only do two hours a day or five hours a week or whatever it is you know so it's actually in a pretty good space and that there's the things we use um like the tools the main tools.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah and in that in that conversation especially that staff meeting that you've turned into you know an online forum now as well making it more accessible for even more people I know for a fact that a lot of the work that comes out of that often goes back to the then OD team I know your uh roles are uh evolving within your workplace as well but you you I know that you get word clouds and you really actually do pay attention to the data and in relation to your organizational culture you're not just focusing on it come culture survey time it's always there front of mind and not only for yourself but the rhetoric of your people everybody at the town as well is much much the same.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah I thought I think when I when I first started a role the the one thing I really wanted to get a handle on was um it's a bit uberizing like the government but it's having a finger on the pulse of the community the council and the staff at any point in time. So that's sort of driven me to well how do I actually get that within an organisation doing a staff survey every two years isn't going to cut it. Doing a community satisfaction survey every two years isn't going to cut it. It's really understanding through things like social media feedback forums engagement forums through staff meetings through engagement with council doing blogs for them and talking to them and educating them and building capability there that you get the richness of what's actually happening at one at particular point in time. Once you know that it's actually then do something with it. Now what are you actually doing that and and try to help resolve it in partnership with them that particular cohort to try to get a better outcome.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Beautiful and it works and you're doing it and you're repeatedly doing it so that's consistency consistency there.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Now I know from your career perspective 22 years congratulations I am sure it has not been hunky-dory throughout so without breaking confidence or you know sharing any crazy crazy stories there may be some crazy stories but what kind of career challenges have you come across and how have you overcome them um look I think um there's lots of different career challenges and you you get them every week nothing always goes right uh so but I I feel like um so I had a leader at some point in time uh they they shall remain nameless um that you know we didn't quite see eye to eye on a number of different uh in a number of different cities and I think what I've learnt over my time is uh everyone has a different perspective on things um but their intent sometimes is exactly the same their intentions are to do the best for the community for instance we have a in local government you have a single generally have a single goal which is pretty much around that whether you're a counsellor whether you're an administrator um you're pretty much just trying to deliver better outcomes for it um but sometimes that gets a bit blurry uh when you're in the in the conversation trying to get something done and you want to do it your way and not the other way and I I think the thing that a key thing that I've learnt is that um to get acceptance around solutions you've got to have engagement and participation in and option generation around what that possible solution could actually be. So rather than thinking it's my idea is the best or their idea is the worst or best um it's trying to work out well not compromise but actually work out together what is actually going to be the the solution we both can get behind to actually deliver a better outcome. I think the challenge for me over time is basically trying to work through some of that particularly when um you're so involved in the conversation sometimes you need uh and I've used it uh facilitation to actually uh get some clarity around what's actually stopping you from getting the outcomes you actually want and if you have going with an open mind and you know no one's doing any evil it's all about trying to get a better outcome um then uh you once you understand what's stopping or blocking that particular um outcome it's it's much easier to deal with um how to actually move forward. You know for me sometimes it's trust uh you know are you am I am I wanting to trust that person or that group of individuals to um to do the right thing and and uh particularly if maybe something's happened in the past that sort of made you think yeah I'm not too sure if that's the if that's um uh the right uh way to go and I think you maybe just maybe step over the line I think it takes a bit of time to actually push through some of those barriers that you've come up against so I mean it it it's a really it's really trying to work through that but being being open to others to help you get through it as well and not have to look it's not all about you all the time it's it's actually having some some clarity from others that will help you. And we've used that actually through the organization through different teams you've been part of that as well when the teams come up a bit against obstacles sometimes it just the inertia kicks in and they can't quite push through and sometimes it's the same as same as me. You know I need sometimes a bit of guidance and support to actually get it to the next point and hopefully you learn from it and then that blind spot's reduced moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Beautiful yeah it's about collaboration and learning yeah I know for a fact that you're a lifelong learner and you value that for yourself and you impart that to your organization as well and you've got a big focus on learning.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

In your opinion what are key qualities that distinguish exceptional leaders uh well I suppose for me it's being authentic it's being who you are uh not being trying to be someone you're not um and in and with that integrity having high levels of integrity um as you probably heard through what I've been saying being open to feedback criticism uh but also helping others to grow build by giving them feedback and uh constructive uh criticism sometimes as well but the probably the biggest value which is embedded within our organisational values for a reason for me is uh care. So if you care about yourself and you care about the community and you care about the council and you care about your staff then you're pretty much on that uh that road of doing anything you can to look after them. I think for me that that's the biggest value that means a lot to me is if I care, things will happen, others will say it and if they know that I'm authentic about that and I demonstrate that in things that I do they generally will align with the direction the organisation's going. If they have concerns they're going to be open enough to actually come up and tell me that there's concerns and then I'm open enough to change direction a bit if I think there's a valid point that they're raising. I think that's probably uh some of the key key sort of um values or qualities. That I suppose in any leadership role vision what is your direction what is the where are you going? And uh are we and uh build building momentum and and people support that direction is is also a crucial um part of The uh I suppose it leaves the role.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Anthony, in relation to that, then going back to the vision, I know. So the town, you have the town's vision. Can I ask you um a personal professional question? Do you have your own vision? Do you have your own kind of guiding values? North Star, what's your thing?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Uh well, I think probably the things that I mentioned around um you know care, integrity, being open, and you know they're the sort of things that drive me. Um the the vision for me is um doing the best I can for the community at large. I think for me, like I'm I'm not I'm not into the commercial space of running a business necessarily to make profit. Um I'm here more about the social dividend and impact I can make on community. Um and yeah, for me, the biggest sort of focus is building capability within community to let them take control of their own destiny, um, enabling them to do more, not to being dependent on an organization like our own, and um helping them to actually get there. So, one thing I've learned over the years is um we don't want to create a welfare society, and in my view, building capability uh takes a bit longer. However, it builds trust. Um, you become much more transparent and open with your stakeholders, your community. Yeah, and they they believe you that you're doing the right thing for that their particular um you know cohort water community. So you know for me, that's the sort of um, I suppose the sort of thing that drives me uh in this and I mean I don't think I could actually ever work for an organization that wasn't really focused on community type stakeholders, not shareholders, it's more about the community dividing that I can provide back to them.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Yeah. Now, when you were talking, so take your own destiny and uh help them to get there. So you're talking about the community in that respect, but I have seen, you know, personally myself, that you apply that to your employees as well. And I'm gonna name you've got you have superstars who often leave the town. So the likes of Chris Gollow, the wonderful Michael Hancock, and Rebecca Waghorn, just three of them I can read off off the top of my head, have gone on to amazing career heights. There's something about the town of Vic Park that creates these talented people. Um what what's your theory or what what are your thoughts in terms of these people who you create or who the town creates?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Uh, I think it's probably our approach. Um so I I want to go back to trusting people. So allowing them to be masters of their own destiny, guiding them when they need it, but gently guiding them, um, being a little bit disruptive every now and then to sort of push push a few boundaries with them. Sometimes they need to have a breakdown to get a breakthrough as well. And I feel like sometimes it's a bit like being in an organization too long. Um you um sometimes don't see that your potential is much greater than the organization that you're working in. Yeah. And I I so for me, I build capability for an industry, not for this organization. So it's I don't I suppose that that I'm going back a step, boundaries concern me. And so I don't boundaries around anything. It's pretty much if it's if it if I'm building a better person, helping to build a better person for the industry, that's my objective. And I want to make sure that they succeed, and it's the same as the community. I want them to succeed as well. Uh, and and I and I want the organizations to succeed. If you focus on building capability and building chances in your own organization, the organization will just flourish. Um, you don't have to dictate to people, you don't have to be an authoritarian type leader, you have to drag people across the line. They can do it themselves and they drag you in with them. And I think that's the that's the key. Uh, I don't focus on me, I focus on them.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yeah. Okay. Um you have to break down to have a breakthrough. And I know you've had some tough conversations with some people as well, uh, especially in the case of if I really want that job at the next level and if I don't win it, I know you've had a conversation with some people to say, hey, it's not your time here. Go out into the world, be brilliant. And I know the other thing that you do is you always have an open door policy of repeat offenders, we like to call them. So you're always welcoming people back as well. But you let them out to fly.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah, look, I do. And look, I think we think quite a few people that wanted to come back over time as well. Uh, and you know, we go through normal processes of recruitment, so sometimes they get back, sometimes they they they don't. However, um, I I try to help any of uh my team as look, this is not just about me, the the whole organization tries to foster this help and support for anyone who's in our business, knowing that at some point in time they're gonna reach a ceiling and want to move on. And it's our objective to actually make sure that we coach and guide them and support them to get those those outcomes because ultimately the community at large is going to benefit from it. Um, you know, everyone's gonna get the benefit, I'm gonna get the benefit of it at some point in time as well. So um I think um being open to having an open mind about um guiding and coaching people and not just saying, no, you can't have that training because it doesn't specifically fit in this box, you know, if you do that and you start constraining you know outcomes and your community and uh staff, um their capability and capacity to grow, um if you focus specifically on just the discipline they're working in, if they have potential in other areas and you know about it and they've told you about it, then encourage them to support them to actually get into that space because generally, you know, regardless of whether they're in our business or not, they'll come back and support us in some way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yep. Guaranteed. Absolutely so. Anthony, you also talked about boundaries, and I remember an executive coaching session I had with your team. You said something which was just aha for me, which I've been repeating to the world. But in your own words, can you talk to me about your concept of being friends versus friendly and the differentiation between the two and why it's so important?

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Yeah, and look, I think um, you know, I can understand people coming into workplaces is where you spend most of your time. And it's good to have friends um beyond uh where you locally live and things like that. However, for me, when particularly when you're in a leadership role, um being friends with people sometimes can um blur the line, I suppose. And I I suppose I've taken it's the same with counsel for instance, you know, my um dealings with counsel is not as a friend, it's being friendly to them. Um, and hopefully they're friendly back back to me. It's the same with staff. Um, but friends is sort of a line where it starts getting a little bit difficult sometimes when a difficult decision needs to be made, and that person may be impacted because of that, and things like biases starting to start to come into play and and how you deal with that particular issue may be um may be affected uh if you become friends. Um, okay, and I'm I know lots of people do become friends. I'm not that worried about all of that, but by the same token, just be mindful about your role and function in an organization, how that may impact that friendship down the track.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Absolutely. I know you say that from the get-go as well, in terms of friends and friendly, there's two different hats there. Yeah. Um, Anthony, there's lots of people listening. You have given lots of advice already, but what advice would you give to aspiring leaders or people who want to leave a meaningful legacy in their own careers and positively change your workplace? Any gems you would give to these people?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Uh well, I might from my perspective is care about people and yourself.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

So that's that's one thing. I don't the care about yourself, sort of, I think leaders sticking these sort of roles struggle with a little bit. Six weeks in the league was really, really good. And that was a bit of care for myself, but sometimes if you don't look after yourself, you're not going to be any good to anyone. Um, definitely caring about your people and actually looking after them is a really important part. And I'm not just talking from not health and safety perspective or anything like that. This is actually keenly caring about their future and about who they are and what their needs are. Um, again, being authentic and being open to meaningful feedback that'll help you build yourself. Um, you know, uh getting feedback from staff, you know, if I have an open door conversation and staff who wants to tell me you didn't do that well in this particular instance, and these are the reasons why I'm open to it. I might feel a bit of a tickle in the back of my head and neck and saying, Oh my god, they're giving me some uh constructive feedback here, what I'm gonna do with this. Um, but the I think being open to that feedback is really important, and also being humble and not seeking admiration. So I think what I learned in my history is like if someone's got an ego, a significant ego, uh in a leadership sort of role, uh focus on making them look good, making sure your team looks good and and are and are working well. Don't focus on yourself because focusing on yourself, people see it, yeah, and they know that you're doing that and you're nice as well. Uh and you you basically if you if people are your focus and leaders are your focus, then the outcomes will come to you eventually over time. Um and don't worry about you know getting to that next racing to that next um goal that you've got around getting an extra pay rise or a different manager position or something like that. But if you if you focus on what you're doing and your people around you and your leaders, you'll get the outcomes eventually. It'll just happen.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Beautiful. And that's your internal driver speaking again. Now, Anthony, final question. This podcast is called Ways to Change Your Workplace. And looking at the current state of the corporate world and the fact that we are this podcast is called Ways to Change Your Workplace. If I gave you Anthony Villetta a magic wand, what is one way that you would change your workplace? Be as controversial or creative as you want.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Um there's a few different ways. I'm I'm a bit of a I would if I wasn't so constrained by structures of local government, which I work in, I would have a Googli's approach to everything. So it would be agile, it would be free-range chickens, leading their own teams or leading themselves to get outcomes. And I thought I think less structure sometimes is is a good thing. Um, some people really need structure, so a bit of it's not a bad thing. Um, but building capability, enabling people is probably the key for it for me. It's just in getting the benefits out of your people by helping them get to where they want to be, rise and organization to re reach its uh potential. And I think being flexible and trying things, doing a bit of RD within your own business to test the waters. You know, I've got apparently got a staff in the working control and um on different ships. Now it's unusual, it's a need, we want to keep the person, they're great. You know, you just gotta be open to something different every now and then and just try. If it doesn't work, then we can we can stop it there, we'll move on to something else. But if you don't try, you'll never know. So that's probably my view of my vision of what I would do in the workplace.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

If you have button, have a bit of fun and not joke.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Always have fun and dad jokes. And if you never try, you will never know. With that, Anthony, I cannot thank you enough. Thank you again.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Thank you. See you later, friend.