174. Work Fame, Hesitation Stations and Why Your Career Isn’t Stuck with Leanne Hughes and Prina Shah

SPEAKER_00 0:03

This podcast is for people who know that the workplace can and should be better and are ready to do something about it. You will learn practical ways to change organizational cultures and human behaviour without buzzwords without box ticking, without performative leadership. I am the boss of Prina Shark Consulting, working with executives, leaders, and teams to create work cultures and environments that actually work for people. I am Prina Shark. I specialise in organizational culture change and human behavior change. I am all about making work better with people who give a damn. So if you think I can help, contact me via LinkedIn. I am here to help you to find decent ways to change the workplace. Let's do this. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Ways to Change Your Workplace podcast with me, your host Prina Shah, and I am bringing back my friend all the way from Brisbane, Lianne Hughes. Welcome back. Woo!

SPEAKER_01 0:54

It's so great to be back, Prina, and I always love chatting with you. So thrilled to be on your lovely and impactful and valuable podcast. So thanks for the invite. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Now, Lianne, I'm going to do a little bit of an intro to you in terms of just a personal intro from myself, and then you can tell our listeners what you do. So Lianne and I have known each other for a long, long time. Now, since I started my business, I think you're a year ahead of me in terms of you starting your own business. Lianne is a queen of facilitation. She has a podcast called The First Time Facilitator, a book called The Two-Hour Workshop Blueprint. But then beyond that, Lianne is a conference speaker and she does all sorts of cool and wonderful things. And you're known to be quite a thought breeder, which I love that term. I don't know who coined that term, but that's what I associate with you, Liane. I know you constantly pivot and evolve in terms of what you're doing from a work perspective. Who is Lianne at the moment? What do you do and why do you do it, Lianne?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

I love that you've asked, What who am I at the moment? Because you're right, it does change a lot. And it really just depends on, I guess, yeah, what I'm enjoying, what I'm kind of sick of, discarding that. And that term thought breeder, I think is probably the first, I guess the identity I have right now, I actually made up that term. So when I was doing, I was doing this two by two every Tuesday, like creating a new framework every Tuesday. And I had like thought leader in there, and I'm like, I know if the thought leaders for me, because the thought leader, I think, is definitely someone that like kind of leads a conversation. But I think I'm more comfortable with thought breeder because what I love, and I know the work that you do, Prina, as well, is we like to share ideas with people, but and then co-create, right? And build something that could be more impressive by through that collaboration process. And I think Thought Breeder is well, you're ahead of you in business, but so I'm just sharing with people. I always try to experiment with things and then share it back and then get better at whatever I'm doing. So I think Thought Breeder is the perfect way. It's consultant, it's speaking. It's basically a person that has ideas, but then there's like probably a million different ways to distribute that through podcasts and writing and everything else. So I think that's where I sit today.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Excellent. Now you mentioned writing. So I'm very excited. Lian is writing a book. I really love talking to people whilst they're in the midst of it rather than when it's published because you're in the zone right now, yeah. I have no idea in detail really what Lianne's book is about. So this is going to be like a freestyle conversation between us, Lianne. So, why are you writing a book first off? A second book, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

That's a great question. I love writing a book and I love having a book. Both you and I, everything we do is intangible. We run workshops, but we don't really have something physical that we can hold against our name. And I think having a book was just the perfect asset to have for a business. And I guess the asset that I had was a two-hour workshop blueprint, and that was built on the old Lianne, the Leanne that had the first-time facilitator podcast and spoke about workshops. This new book, people would say, oh, it is a dramatically different category, but I think it's been a natural evolution. So what I discovered is the reason I wrote that book is because it's like you got to run a workshop from time to time and it's very different. Sharing your expertise, you need a way to do that. But what I discovered through running workshops is that I became this is my new phrase and the title of the book, I became work famous because the workshop for me in a big organization was the unlock that built my reputation. So what the book is called Work Fame. That's a world exclusive. I've never actually said that on anyone else's podcasts. You're the first. I'm actually deliberately, I'm doing a very different marketing strategy. Last book, I was like all about co-creation and telling people way about it way in advance. This one, I want to do more big scale launch and surprise and delight. So workshops are a way to get work fame. You might say personal branding, but for people within an organization. But I'm like, I wanted to create a new category, which is work fame, which is actually about being of service and communicating in a way that gets cut through. So you get really cool opportunities where you work.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

That's cool. So this is for entrepreneurs, so people working internally in an organization. And I'm just thinking about my past, and I think our past are quite similar in terms of our background as well. So can I just hear? So you talked about workshops creating this fame for you, Leanne, when you were in the corporate land. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah. This is the book is written for Leanne, the 2016 version of Leanne, right? Aha. So I was living in Broome in Western Australia, and I was like, I was having the time of my life, but it was time to move back to Brisbane where we're originally from. I scored this job with a global mining company, and I was like celebrating. This is the best job ever. I'm so excited. Three months in, I'm like, this is crap. I was dreading every day. I was just sitting in front of a computer. Like I was doing the job, but it was just so boring. Meanwhile, the reason that pulled me to this company is I've got global operations all around the world. Colleagues were getting the opportunities to fly around. I was just basically sitting at a computer in Brisbane and just going, is this what it's all about? And then I was actually looking for other jobs at the time, which a senior mining engineer said to me, Hey Leanne, the grass isn't greener on the other side. It's just another shade of brown. And I was like, okay, I wasn't very motivational. Wise person. It's a good line because it reminded me I could go to any other organization and maybe have the same experiences, but maybe there are opportunities here that I'm not really tapping into. And so my onboarding experience at the company was like basically what everyone else goes through, like an online induction where you just click, click, click for a week and you're sitting there. And I'm like, why don't we have a Brisbane head office induction? I'll run it. I put my hand up and I started doing things like coordinating and running these one-day inductions. I discovered the strengths tool. I loved it. I volunteered to run it for different teams. And that's how I became work famous. Didn't even take that long. Like within six to nine months, then my boss was like flying me to Canada to run that workshop. Thank you. Wow. Kicked off the podcast. And then I think it was 12 months later. I'm out up the front in front of 10,000 staff remotely running the executive town hall. And yeah, it's an accelerator for sure, some of these skills.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

I've got a million questions for you. And I've been writing lots down as you were talking. So I want to go back to that crappy feeling, Leanne, because so many of us feel you've been there down that many a time myself. And when I had that feeling, I was like, bugger it. I'm not being utilized here. My brain is being wasted. I'm bored. It's crappy, as you said, right? Then I apply for another job. And the grass definitely wasn't greener on the other side. It's just the same stuff that you come across. It might be the politics, it might be the border mouth or whatever. So that's the system that we work in. But now you're really turning the table to say, okay, well, we're working in this system, but how can we have better agency within this system, right? Because it can be done. But a lot of us don't even know how to even begin, right? And it's that visibility thing as well that you're talking to. So there's two things: the boredom, the interest that you've created as a result, and then the visibility, then that completely shifts you in terms of your professional brand. And then what comes? Can I delve into the bored Lianne? So you were really thinking about quitting.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

No, big time. This is an embarrassing story, but before I got that mining job, I actually had another opportunity with the massive global travel company. And then I actually rang her and it's like, hey, is that job still around? And so she found this budget to counter offer my existing salary. And then I rejected her again. So I was like, I've got to make this work. I mean, that was really tempting, but it's like there were reasons why I took on this other job. I was honestly, I was on Seek every afternoon. And I was even thinking, why does Seek have a bright pink app? Like this is really embarrassing. People can maybe see that I'm on this job. Like, can they not have like a kind of great mode on Seek? But I was, I was actively looking. And it was weird because my boss was actually great, but I was just like, I'm really struggling here. But you've nailed it with agency. That was the real difference. And that a decision to be like, let's make this better. You read lots, I read lots.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

I don't know if you've read The Pleasures and Sorrows of Work by Alain de Botan. Oh, I love Alan de Botan. Well, spoiler alert. You read it, definitely. Not a major spoiler alert, but something we all know about. We're all gonna die. This time that we're spending at work has to be meaningful, hence, all of the work that I do, I'm all about meaning and creating better workplaces. But there's that internal struggle that so many of us have. So you talked about it, but that feeling is really deep. If you go deeper as well, shit, I've got to pay bills, therefore I have to work, but I don't like my job, it's really crappy, and it's that constant feeding off that thought process, and then you're driving to work, you're not feeling it. It's that daily drudgery I'm driving to work in total.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

And it impacts like your relationship. So even like from Sunday, like 1 p.m. bang my stomach would be like, oh, I don't want to do this and getting all worked up about it. And this is what I'm arguing as well in my book, because I think there's another point to this. You've got quite a few options, right? We're not trees, so we can move. But that's not saying every job can be utopia. That's not the case at all. Let's be realistic. I mean, we can talk nightmare jobs. But another option is the quiet quitting option. And my book is kind of like a counter-argument to that because the second you kind of put yourself into second gear, back to your point. We only have one life. It's like, do you really want to be in second gear? Or do you want to find your podcast is all about finding meaning and purpose? Because you find that actually then it's one life that we have, and it translates to the joy and energy that you show up in every other part of it. So it's worth thinking about how can we improve this for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Okay. The book is not published, so I haven't read it. I don't have my hands on the book at all yet. So, Leanne, I'm gonna ask you a million questions now. So I'm feeling this funk, yeah. I'm either thinking about quitting or carrying on here. I'm carrying on here, what the hell do I do? I'm gonna use your terminology. Quoting the wonderful Leanne Hughes, I am in a hesitation station at the moment. What is a hesitation station and how the hell do I get out of it?

SPEAKER_01 10:15

So that's the phrase. I mean, I love things that rhyme, but the hesitation station, you'd get so many leaders talking to you about the same thing, but I think people generally know what they want, but there's a gap between where you are at the moment. So you're kind of at this train station, there's no timetable, you don't know whether the trains are going up or back. You can be on this platform, and you can be on the platform for a long time or a short time. And my goal in everything I do is to get off that platform as soon as I can, even if it's just jumping on any train in any direction. So that's just sort of gets some movement because either you kind of learn from it, you get feedback, and then you can get back on the right train track. When you're on the hesitation station, I think the liminal space, I think it's necessary. It's not a bad thing to be on there because you got these signals usually from your body as well that are telling you, hey, something isn't right here. Something that I talk about in the book, one of the early chapters, is actually thinking about what do you want to be famous for and actually backing yourself and being a bit bold and brave about it, even just to write it down. Something we often limit ourselves with is like, how do I do that? The second you put out a goal, you kind of minimize it and go, that won't work because I don't know, I don't know the right people, I don't have the right skill set. But it's kind of like abandoning the how and just going all in on and being brave enough to admit to yourself, this is what I want to be famous for. And it links into things like we always talk about what fuels you, what are your strengths, what situations bring you joy, and why is that? And getting clear on that is the first step. At least it gives you a direction off that hesitation station and you can start taking steps.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

That's cool. So this book is not just for facilitators, it's for anybody. So I could be working in finance, I could be working in corporate law, whatever it might be. So the question there is the one of the chapters that you really focus on is what do I want to be known for? What do I want to be work famous for, or the recognized expert for as well? And you know, a lot of us don't consider ourselves, especially when we're in corporate. Oh, I'm just the organizational development person, just the finance person. I was like, no, I'm the finance person. I am the OD person. So it's really elevating. I guess you're talking about confidence here as well, are you?

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yes. A confidence through doing stuff that actually gives you the confidence. Because I think confidence is a total trap. Yeah, you can just wake up, you can't think yourself to confidence. Like you got to try it, and a lot of it is giving people micro experiments. So one example is it sounds a bit random, but I talk about going on a walk of fame. What I mean by that is let's say you're out, I go for a walk every morning, and there's two different types of walks I go on. So one is a walk of tame, which is like what I prefer, is like I got the head pods in, I'm just going for distance, and I'm heads down. Even for 500 meters of this walk, I'm gonna ditch the airpods, I'm gonna walk up straight, I'm gonna greet everyone that I walk past. And I don't care if I don't say hi back, but it's just developing that skill of being approachable and being open to opportunities. I know when I would go to the office, go to my level, heads down, just talk to the people I know. Very tame. Whereas the walk of fame, it's like it develops that confidence because a lot of it is and anything you try is getting over that fear of rejection. And I get rejected quite a bit on the Walk of Fame. Oh, I had an old guy this morning that didn't say hi back, and I'm like, oh, that was awkward.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

But I was like, oh well, I didn't die. I love that. So I'm really thinking about this book now at a different level. So I'm working with someone on executive coaching, and this person is an amazing specialist in what they do in Australia. But they're the best kept secret, Leanne. So they're at the helm of their career, the apex of their career, the best thing. But they want to be recognized more. They want to be known for all of the brilliant work that they're doing for the communities that they serve. So this book really talks to anyone, really, at any stage of career as well, then.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Big time. And also, you can apply it to consultants, but a lot of the case studies I've used have been for people that work internally, graduates through to the head of GSK Australia, who really talks about just putting your hand up and getting involved and things like that. So it does have applicability at any stage of your career. The through line is do you want more opportunities? Do you want to be better known? It's okay to want to be famous because what I had to do is like really get over the objection. Because like people are allergic to the word famous. And I think it's going to repel the people that are, but a lot of people quietly, maybe it's not fame that we want, but we want the perks off the back of fame. We want to meet the cool people, we want the access, we want the travel. Come on. And it's okay to want that. And I think anyone that wants that, it's for them.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

You're really challenging it. And I think people will freak out at the word fame, like, ooh. And you know, we've been taught not to shine, the whole tall poppy syndrome, all of that kind of stuff as well. And that kind of word can be triggering for some or really attractive to some as well. And I have to say, if it is triggering for you, lean into it, find out what that's about. That's the challenge, that's the fun and hard work. In my book as well, when I wrote about it, my quick winning meaningful, how to create a culture that leaves a legacy. People freak out at the word legacy. Really? Yeah, yeah. Honestly, so so people think legacy is something that you consider on your deskbed. All right, no, people, you leave a legacy every freaking day. Which then, when you have that kind of perception and linking to your book as well, it's just a different mindset. And the agency then that you have is like, whoa, now I can step myself up to the next level of work fame.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

I really love how you talk about legacy. It really links into trust as well. If you have a legacy-first mindset, your ability to build trust and relationships and like slightly that long game.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

I love that. Let's be true. I was talking to our friend Petra, who's writing a book about the return of investment on trust itself. And workplaces, you can work wherever you want. Generally speaking, the values will generally be the same. The vision, mission will generally be the same to do good, to do blah blah. So, what is it about you that's different? What is it about you that really fits into this space? And I think that's the thing that's often missing with people. Your book really taps into me, not the organization, not the bigger stuff, the system that I'm working in and how I fit into that. Yes, how I fit into it, but in my way and how I want to. And I think that's often the missing piece with so many people who do feel disillusioned, or even people who are very amazing in their jobs, but just don't know how the hell to get to that next stage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

That's exactly who it was written for because when you start thinking around like the system and the organizing, like it's very hard to change that. Ownership, it's agency, it's kind of cheering you on. Like, this is possible. And some of the things aren't, as I was reading the book, rereading it for the hundredth time, some things are like a big step, bringing a lot of the hosting skills into it. If you can host a panel, I mean, a recent example, even this weekend, I've been a Brisbane Raw supporter since 2005, been on the supporters club committee. On the weekend, I hosted the Brisbane Raw corporate event. What got me there is literally no skills or quality. I mean, no quals. Like lots of skills. It was basically, yeah, the skill of hosting, like gets you famous. It gets you the soccer roos. And so that's like a more complex skill that I talk about. But even little things like Prina, we both run webinars for companies. And I'll jump on these calls. There's like 200 people there, but there's like maybe 20 people on camera. And so one simple thing is like turn your camera on. Like it's like kind of a lot of some of it's like basic workplace etiquette, like show up on time, start the meeting on time. Like stuff that I guess kind of become uncool, but I think guess what? Like, this is the stuff that can get you ahead, and that isn't a huge ask.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

I'm gonna challenge you. The extroverts are like, yes, I'm gonna read this book, I need this book, I'm gonna be out there shining. Can we talk to the introverts?

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah, I think introverts have got more of an opportunity, actually, because first of all, I honestly don't really believe in extrovert. I think it's a bit of a cop-out, to be honest. People think that I'm an extrovert. I'm definitely an ambi, like I'm definitely both. And I'm always nervous before gigs and everything else. I was a very shy kid. Even you. Yeah, extremely shy. Yeah, I get super nervous. But you've really got to be clear on first of all, like, what do you want? If you do want these opportunities, it's in there within your grasp, and you have to get uncomfortable. All of us have to. This is not a natural thing. The counter-argument to my book is like, this isn't the book isn't about self-promotion and humble bragging. Like, people on LinkedIn, we know what that platform is like. You and I play the game. Like, let's be honest. The book is really about service, about a service mindset. So when you're hosting a panel, so the three core pillars are contribution. And I think what I mean, extroverts and introverts alike are really great at contributing, but it's how do you get cut-through contribution? And a lot of this is around using your language in a way that actually resonates with your stakeholders. I always talk about the listening tour, learning the lyrics, talking about results and impact, not your methodology. These are things that enable cut through. Also, communicating medium and different mediums you can use to communicate, like using Loom videos instead of calling a meeting for everything. These are things that I've used as a consultant that just cut through, get attention as well. That's cool. Second one. Second one is conversations. These are the conversations that you have. There's two types, one-to-one. So meeting up with your frentors, having mentors, talking to people outside of your team. And the other one is one-to-many. And this is when we talk about hosting a lunch and learn, volunteering to do that, hosting panels, attending conferences and meeting people, like that type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

That's cool. Number three is.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Number three is coverage. This is where we get all famous. And this isn't a bag and not the humble brag, but so the person that you were talking to that's top of her game, it's like sharing what has she done? It's like what tell us some stories. What have you learned? What are the patterns? What should we be interested in in the industry? What do you see in the future? But actually showcasing that to the world. So those are the three work fame spotlights, and they all work together to get you work fame.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

I love that. And that really addresses that funky feeling in me, which I've had many a time in my corporate jobs, of just being so frigging bored, and it's just like, oh, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to start. So your framework actually gives me a way to start. And I love the way that you've got a service mindset because otherwise it can come across as a bit douchey and very self-kind of marketing, I guess, as well. Whereas if you have a service mindset, you're doing it for the good of whatever you're delivering, right? And for the people that you are serving, essentially. It's a real shift and really tangible for any kind of personality or anyone at any level as well within the organization to actually pick up and take hold of, really.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yes, that's exactly what it's about. There's a bit of a self-assessment at the beginning. And when I was thinking back to Leanne 2016, trick everything into contribution. That was like on high beam. Yep. Value add. Yeah, always and talking, initiating conversations. I was waiting for people to come to me. It's like you've got to initiate. And here's how. And the second I started, so that was the other interesting thing. So I started my podcast first time facilitator when I was working internally. And I just saw obviously this is outside of work. But people within work saw the podcast, and then I got just yeah, became even more work famous because who internally has a podcast?

SPEAKER_00 20:52

That's really cool. Lianne, you've just given me some extra aha moments. I remember one of my jobs had the best induction. So my manager really wanted me to shine, especially working in organizational development and a culture change. I needed to know everyone, but when you're brand new in, it's like, who's who in the zoo? No idea. So we had the boring corporate induction stuff, which is mandatory stuff. But then his induction for me is he had a whole list of all of my stakeholders. And he said, Prina, go meet them, go interview them. It's that listening tool that you're really talking to. And those relationships I formed early on in my career, Lianne, and I'm still in touch with these people. Like the power of that is just something else. So the relationships is massive as well. And then the kind of work that you do as a result afterwards, like, oh yeah, Prina, you've already got that. Buy-in is so much easier. Is there anything that we've missed that you wish that 2016 Lianne would have really, really needed?

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Probably just the confidence to go after it and to believe that it is possible. David White, he's a poet. My favorite quote from him you're probably sick of me saying it, Prina, is he says, That which you can plan is too small for you to live. And so when I embark, On this whole thing around, like, how do I start personally getting more fulfilled at work? I never would have believed that my life would have dramatically changed and travel around the world working with my favorite authors, being into like the amount of stuff that has happened as a result of just a single mindset shift is extraordinary. I'm not promising this to everyone, but I think back to your point around we only have one life. Is this really it for you? Or do you is there more there? Can you contribute more? What would it look like to play your strengths? Wouldn't that be a great life for you? And how do you start injecting that? And what can you try in small steps today to make that happen?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

It's such a safe way to do things as well. And Leanne, I'm thinking about me in my corporate days. So when I became the boss, I reckon like your whole book can be applied from a team perspective as well. As how do we become work famous from a team perspective, right? So I was like, yes. So I'm thinking about all of the people that used to report to me. I could completely help them shine. And this is again talking to your service, that aspect that you're really tapping into there as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

We get asked all the time. You'd work with HR teams too saying, Hey, how do we get a seat at the table? And it's like, of which we've got an example from a HR manager that did that. She joined a company and every they hated, like they just hated HR. And she just took this guy for coffee, and within six weeks, they were all asking her for advice on who to recruit and how to manage performance. And just because she was actually, she went there, no agenda, just asking questions, just curious. And it just completely changed things around. So I love it. It's kind of like these side quests. Like these aren't, it's not the traditional playbook of how to succeed. It's literally like these are the side quests and the things outside of the norm that you can try and go for it.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

It's very strategic, but it's stuff that people don't really consider themselves usually.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

And that's why it works, because no one does it. Yeah. So if I was to read the book, and I can't wait to read it, by the way, especially if I'm in corporate, I imagine after I've read the book, it's like, oh my gosh. So I might have a plan for the next year of how I do whatever. Yeah. It's not going to be like an overnight thing. It's the hard work that I then have to put in.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Yeah. Something that's like not that hard. There is some hard things. Hosting anything is hard and to get yourself there. But even reaching out to people, there's a template there. So it's just more about that backing yourself and going for it. So I interviewed this big pharmaceutical in the UK, but head office is based in the UK. So they've got an internal influencer program. What? Yeah, I know. How cool is this? They actually help their staff do things like post and talk about the company. And the amount of reach they've got off the back of that, like millions of organic, it would have cost them an absolute fortune to get this reach. But the value of doing that, of having internal evangelists, people that are going for work fame within your business, is that they've got networks within pharmaceutical as well. So when their content goes well, it attracts other people to it. They were doing some really cool things. I mean, they got a lot of money. So they'll they had a giveaway post about this. The top 10 people that get the most views get to come to the F1 and hang out with McLaren. And whoa, this is nuts. Yeah. So in future, I think the internal influencer, like that's the stuff I really want to help companies on because I love marketing and I love that type of work. So yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

I worked at a job which was very, very cool. That was my first piece of consulting experience that I had. So at the Chamber of Commerce and Industry, and I remember they did this, but they didn't call us internal influencers. So every single consultant back in the day when I was working at the Chamber of Commerce and Industry, we were trained hard on marketing, our professional profile, our professional brand, our LinkedIn, how we represent the company, how we promote what we've done outside. Like, oh, I went to see client Lianne, blah, blah, blah. This is the results that we achieve. This is clever. So I had been trained in here, which I hadn't even considered years ago. Ahead of their time. After actually naming it, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah. We're definitely moving. Especially like Petra Mutual Friend. She's talking about trust. These are ways, these are signals of trust. If you're proud enough to brag about your company on social media, obviously not coerce, like you're genuinely like proud of what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

That's got to be an attractor to the business for sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

That's cool. Okay. Thank you for writing a book for Pasprina as well. Not just for Pas Lianne, by the way. So this book is needed in the world. I cannot wait to read it. Do you have a published date yet?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

It's going to be published in October, quite a few months away. We're going into copy edit now. And I've really got to determine my launch plan because it's work fame. I want to do like a red carpet tour. I'd love to get to Perth and do some fun stuff, but let's hope the fuel lasts over.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Let's plan something fun for Perth. We can make this happen. Lianne, very interesting conversation. I cannot wait for the book to hit the world. I'm going to be getting a copy very soon when it's out. Thank you for your amazing questions and curiosity, Parina. Always fun. If you like this episode, check out the show notes and sign up for my newsletter. That will help your workplace to be less shitty. It's full of novel ideas, good food for thought. And if you like this episode, pass it on to at least two people who will benefit. That's your good deed done for the day. Also, remember to subscribe to the Ways to Change Your Workplace Podcast via your podcast provider. And I will see you in the next episode.